Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 136

Thread: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

  1. #101

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    I'm repeat, Hrobatos but...

    family Altaic

    sub-family Tungus(Djurchets for example), Turkic(Kypchaqs,Huns,all ghuzes) Mongolic(Khitaď, Mongols)



    like family Indo-European

    sub-family Germanic(Francs, Goths, Cimbres, Vandals....)

    And I don't shearch reputation, just give informations on the good books...I'm not want be historian, educator or simply vanitous.For this informations that you shearch on this aryan peaple, start by Wiki.If you don't have a lend library in your city...

  2. #102

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrobatos View Post
    for me turks are people in Turkey
    Well there is your source of confusion. The Turkic people are originally from Central Asia. Anatolian Turks have cultural/linguistic heritage from Central Asia. While they do have some genetic heritage from Central Asia, they have more in common genetically with people in neighboring European countries and the Middle East. Anatolian Turks are Turkic but...

    This man is also Turkic (Kazakh):
    Last edited by sumskilz; February 02, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #103

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Yes this man is "fully turk", not melting with Indo-european or caucasic, the Osmanlis(your turks, Hrobatos) are severly melanged with Armenians, Iranians and Greeks, because like all altaic people , the Osmanlis love the women from the Settled world.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    who were Parths? Sarmatians? Scythians? or even Alans
    They all spoke languages of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European family. The Alans spoke a language that is a descendent of one of the ancient Scytho-Sarmatian dialects. The modern Ossetians are descended from the Alans.

    Indo-European language relationships:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    EDIT: This version looks a little more up to date with recent research:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by sumskilz; February 02, 2010 at 03:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #105

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Its totally clear with this document...

  6. #106
    Hrobatos's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    7,786

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rus-Bey View Post
    Yes this man is "fully turk", not melting with Indo-european or caucasic, the Osmanlis(your turks, Hrobatos) are severly melanged with Armenians, Iranians and Greeks, because like all altaic people , the Osmanlis love the women from the Settled world.
    now we are making progress

    i know thats way i said i will use altaic rather than turkic, in my language turks are people from Turkey, even do sometimes word Turk in balkan languages means muslim.
    so my question again, what race were turks, let call them proto-turks,
    and can you prove that they were of what ever race you claim they are

  7. #107
    Petar's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    306

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Well there is your source of confusion. The Turkic people are originally from Central Asia. Anatolian Turks have cultural/linguistic heritage from Central Asia. While they do have some genetic heritage from Central Asia, they have more in common genetically with people in neighboring European countries and the Middle East. Anatolian Turks are Turkic but...
    Exactly. The turkic people formed many tribes. Some of them invaded Asia Minor. One of the invading tribes dominated over the others - the Seljuks. Later their power declined and another tribe - the ottomans took the power.
    The turkish people descend from that part of the turkic people. ("turk" is a very loose term). And the genotype of the modern turkish is mediterranean (mixed with all kinds of arabic, kurdish, greek and even slavonic)

    Cumans and Pechenegs were also turkic tribes (mainly, still mixed with slavs and more..) but they were different than the tribes who settled in Asia Minor. Actually, the seljuks, ottomans and the rest are one of the last turkic tribes to migrate towards Europe.

    Now to make some more clarification let's add the Mongolians to the big picture.
    Until their invasion the Black Sea steppes and beyond were inhabitted mainly by turkic nations. The Mongols, despite being "distant cousins", obliterated all the turkic states (except for those in Asia Minor). Many of the survivors seeked refuge in the neighbouring countries and were assimilated which caused them to disappear from the historical scene.

    In historical sources there might be some confusion between mongol and turkic people due to the fact that sometimes all those with mongoloid faces were called "Tatars" (although this term in history is for naming a few Altaic tribes)...


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    They all spoke languages of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European family. The Alans spoke a language that is a descendent of one of the ancient Scytho-Sarmatian dialects. The modern Ossetians are descended from the Alans.

    Indo-European language relationships:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    EDIT: This version looks a little more up to date with recent research:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The first chart is not quite accurate, but the 2nd one is nice.

  8. #108
    Hrobatos's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    7,786

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    i asked about race of altaic people
    huns, avars and magayrs are probably of same origin, but were they altaic? racialdiferences as well as language

  9. #109
    Marcus Bestia's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    i must disagree with Rus-Bey's statement - Xiongnu are "the Huns" - i never met such statement in literature. connection between Xiongnu and Huns was everytime accompanied with word "probably". so i dont think it was proved on the scientific platform. here and now i have as proof wikipedia only, so here is the quotation: "The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia. David Sinor. Page 178 there is no evidence to show that the dominant element in the Hun state was historically connected with that of the Hsiung-nu ".
    i am also in doubt about categorization of Huns into turkic language subfamily. Is it proven in some way? in my opinion the principal question is: can we today describe hunnic language and are we able to categorizate it into language family? i dont think so. so any proclamation in the styl "huns are..." is speculation till somebody show a proof.
    on the other hand, Otto John Maenchen-Helfen (1894-1969), author often cited in the issue of Huns, wrote: "To judge by the tribal names, a great part of the Huns must have spoken a Turkish language." so in the issue of hunnic language we should keep saying "probably"

    on wikipedia there are a few interesting sentences related to huns:
    "Turkologists are likely to find Turks everywhere"
    "Scholars of profound erudition were sometimes biased by Pan-Turkism..." This is what Hrobatos was talking about

    there are only few hunnic words known today, one of it is strava, a word for funeral feast. in my czech language word strava means food, meal, nutrition. interesting.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Ok Hrobatos...good luck in your life, and Jesus love you also, you known...
    Marcus , my knowlegde is based on french-speaking historians, Jean-Paul Roux and René Grousset, and this historian's books are available in english. I don't may learn the german. I come back to my books, its less complex that discussion with you all...just if you may learn this book: L’Empire des steppes, Attila, Gengis-Khan, Tamerlan. 1938 by Grousset, really please!!!!!! Ok I stop my trying of discussion with you all, I find only hostility here...

  11. #111
    Hrobatos's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    7,786

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    only thing we now for certain is that we will die, everything else is maybe
    you should try to find facts in those books, not thinkings of autor, find as much reliable proofs and than try to connect them in theory, making theory and then finding proofs is not very good to find truth
    i mean there are dozen books of croatian and some foreign autors who claim that all people between Kiev, Germany, Baltic and Greece are Croats ( with exception of Magyars, and Bulgars) and taht only people between Drava river and Adriatic see kept name Croats-Hrobatoi (yes Hrobatos means Croat)
    they have proofs for their claims as well
    does that mean they have to be right? so what if they are profesional historians
    they claimings are too "pan-croatian" with old one "Croats all and everybody"
    and this is wrong, incorect, i dont want to read history that i like but history that was, thats way i consider myself amateur historian
    and because only thong i am certain is that we are all die
    everything else is maybe
    Last edited by Hrobatos; February 03, 2010 at 11:29 AM.

  12. #112
    Marcus Bestia's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rus-Bey View Post
    Ok Hrobatos...good luck in your life, and Jesus love you also, you known...
    Marcus , my knowlegde is based on french-speaking historians, Jean-Paul Roux and René Grousset, and this historian's books are available in english. I don't may learn the german. I come back to my books, its less complex that discussion with you all...just if you may learn this book: L’Empire des steppes, Attila, Gengis-Khan, Tamerlan. 1938 by Grousset, really please!!!!!! Ok I stop my trying of discussion with you all, I find only hostility here...
    i really can not see any hostility in my post. i have only expressed disagreement with your opinion, it is not hostility, it's discussion. don't mix up criticism with hostility. i dont know you, i have no reason to be hostile towards you.

    yesterday before i went sleep, i was reading book Attila of John Mann. he writes about rené grousset and claims that grousset doesnt present any proofs to support his claiming Huns are descendant of Hiungnu.
    Maybe describing what french authors think about huns and showing their proofs could be useful.

    we can cite here tens of books and authors with mutualy oposing opinions, but we'll never get rational result because there simply are not enough proofs for one or another opinion.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Yes all theories are interpretations of the ancient authors: chineses, greeks, latins and iranians...

  14. #114

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaplony View Post
    I'm a member of a hungarian noble family (comes/graaf), which have a clear ancestry back to one of the leaders of the seven hungarian tribes of the onogurs. The name of the leader of the fifth tribe was Könd, his sons was Kücsid and Kaplon. My family come from them.
    Hungarians are not Turkic people. You don't know the basic genetics of Europe. Ironically Hungarians contain less asiatic blood than most of their neighbours. (Forexample the balkan nations Romania Serbia have high ratio of middle eastern genetic markers, the slovaks have relevant mongoloid markers) Anthropology: The average pigmentation of Hungarians (skin hair & eye color) is lighter than other nations in the Carpathian basin. And don't forget the average tallness. This young man have never been in Turkey or other Turkic countries in Asia and he have never learnt genetics, that's why he spoke absurdities. It might he reads fantasy books about the origin of Hungarians, which were written by laymen authors who haven't history thesis. Most of these laymen history-fantasy authors have high-school graduations.
    Last edited by Stears78; March 10, 2010 at 01:28 PM.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Stears78 View Post
    Hungarians are not Turkic people. You don't know the basic genetics of Europe. Ironically Hungarians contain less asiatic blood than most of their neighbours. (Forexample the balkan nations Romania Serbia have high ratio of middle eastern genetic markers, the slovaks have relevant mongoloid markers) Anthropology: The average pigmentation of Hungarians (skin hair & eye color) is lighter than other nations in the Carpathian basin. And don't forget the average tallness. This young man have never been in Turkey or other Turkic countries in Asia and he have never learnt genetics, that's why he spoke absurdities. It might he reads fantasy books about the origin of Hungarians, which were written by laymen authors who haven't history thesis. Most of these laymen history-fantasy authors have high-school graduations.
    This is false the hungarians are Turan language group with turks and mongols.

  16. #116
    Hrobatos's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    7,786

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    yeah Hungarians are turkic group because these are strong nomad wariors
    but Hungarians arent strong nomad wariors

  17. #117

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Hahaha,

    Hungarian junior water polo team:



    Turkic hahahaha.

    The sorrounding balkan countries contains more asian genetics. They are genetically closer to turks.

    Average hair color map



    Average eye color map
    Last edited by Stears78; March 12, 2010 at 04:45 AM.

  18. #118
    Hrobatos's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    7,786

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    nice maps, so center is Baltic, interesting and Scandinavia

  19. #119

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Haha, Go back to primary school, and learn genetics instead of write stupidities. Read the sources and articles of leader genetic laboratories of Europe and USA. Don't read the fantasy books of uneducated authors, whose maximal qualification is the high-school graduation.

  20. #120
    Kaplony's Avatar Libertus
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    71

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Some of the hungarian tribes were scytho-iranians, others were hunnic sabirs from Caucasus and from Meotis, others were turkish, avaric or onogur-hun. There were also 3 tribes of the kabars with khwarezmians (de gente Corosima), jazyg-alans and kazar turks. Later pechenegs, kypchak-polovecs, alans (sarmatians), cumans, barsiles and oghuz turks had arrived and settled in Hungary. There are regions hungarians had mixed with germanic or slavic folks, but the majority still turkish or indo-iranian (scythic), so stop abusing others, retard. We have relatives in Russia (Bashkirs), Kazakistan (Madjars), Nepal (Magars), Pakistan (Nagars and Hunzas) and in East-Turkestan (Yugurs or Yellow Uyghurs).

    Check these magyars: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=88827&page=24
    Last edited by Kaplony; March 16, 2010 at 05:37 PM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •