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Thread: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    And if you call me arrogant then I am judging you by your answer as rude.
    Then excuse me for my bad temper. Habsburgs determined our origin for 200 years, communists for other 60, and I read through on your post that you think you know better who are the hungarians then the hungarians themselves.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    "Huge part of our words are turkic, as others are uralic, with few mongolid and with lots of unknown origin", yes same environnement,its adoption of the vocabulary,not the sames roots.Its like the arabic words in the turkish or persian idiomes.
    Kaplony, the altaics peoples had lived like parasites since China at Hungaria, they are dominant peoples, they are the aristocrats of the eastern people,and the settled lands.Exactly like the scythians,sarmates,parthians...Slavics have consanguinity with the iranians ,but they aren't iranians, but they had know the dominations of this iranians.Bulgaria had know the same processus.
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    I dont think altaic peoples are parasites.. They were harsh warriors, masters of the bow and the horse - they were somewhat merciless and barbaric, but not more than the normanns or other european peoples of that age.

    By the way the situation is just that the communist People's Republic of China dominate our uyghurian brothers and occupieing East Turkestan and Tibet.

    If you talking about Hungarians, we settled in the Carpathian Basin in 895, but we were only the third wave of our predecessors, the black huns and the avars. We did not destroyed the local population (hunnic, avaric), but attached our buildings to their settlements, and not upon theirs - the archeology proved this. Written sources say we understood their language and united as one nation. We were never dominating nobody, but exactly let every folk to live under our Holy Crown - this was a mistake, because romanians, slovaks and serbs betrayed us and stolen 72% of our 1100 years old homeland after World War I.
    Last edited by Kaplony; January 23, 2010 at 08:18 AM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    I agree,Normans are parasites also.Since the 15 century its the peoples of the steppes who suffer of the civilised parasitism.Situation is inversed.
    " local population" of Carpats(hunnic, avaric)" and the indo-europeans like Daces or others they have disappears?

    "because romanians, slovaks and serbs betrayed us and stolen 72% of our homeland after World War 1", hungarians are the agents of the autrichian dynasty, I believe that you forget the ideas of forced magyarisation in the modern times...
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rus-Bey View Post
    I agree,Normans are parasites also.Since the 15 century its the peoples of the steppes who suffer of the civilised parasitism.Situation is inversed.
    " local population" of Carpats(hunnic, avaric)" and the indo-europeans like Daces or others they have disappears?
    As I know, romans exterminated most of the dacians, later evacuated the region (271. AD), then visigoths, taifals, huns, gepids, vandals, bulghar turks and avars ruled (or travelled through) the territory so daces dissolved gardually, but romanian chauvinists like to believe they were still there in the XIII. century, when they arrived.

    So altaic peoples are parasites, just like the civilised ones, and everybody, isn't? Slightly grotesque world view.

    hungarians are the agents of the autrichian dynasty, I believe that you forget the ideas of forced magyarisation in the modern times...
    Are you joking? Were were opressed by austrians, and we fought through the XVI-XIX. century to get rid of them (and of the osmans in XVI-XVII. c).

    "Forced magyarisation"?

    Until century XIX. every nationality lived in peace with each other in our country, under our defense. Some of them assimilated, others did not. Then in 1844 our parliament made the hungarian as the first, formal language (to replace latin), like France and England did it in that time, however 40% of the population still didn't speak the hungarian language in 1900! We were the first in the world, who created a nationality law in 1968 to guarantee protection to every nationality. The peoples of Hungary loved their country, until some nationalist instigators came and exacted the Entente to give them an own country, but in our territory.
    They were traitors and thiefs, and now, after they stole 72% of our one thousand years old lands, they are still stealing our cultural heritage, like some of our noble family names, our coat of arms with our doubled cross, hungarian historical buildings, our Chronicon Pictum, the story of diver Kund, etc etc.. they also unilaterally deflected our biggest river, the Danube in Bős-Nagymaros.
    Romanian national "heroes", like Avram Iancu massacred thousands of hungarians in Transylvania in 1848, yugoslav partisans tortured and killed more than 40.000 hungarian civilians in the second WW, czechoslovaks made the Benes Decret, which is against human rights - but it is also operative in modern days chauvinist Slovakia.
    Shame to Europe for alowed these to happen.
    Last edited by Kaplony; January 23, 2010 at 03:10 PM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin






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    Kaplony's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by persianfan247 View Post
    Check this article out
    I know most of these speculations about our language, but nobody could prove their truth up to now. The only fact is that we have turkish (türk) origin from the beginnings.

    For example, it appears that the Hungarians learned animal breeding techniques from the Turkic Chuvash, as a high proportion of words specific to agriculture and livestock are of Chuvash origin.

    This part is nonsense.. if we learned the animal breeding (as a nomad) from chuvash, what we eaten travelling from the Tarim Basin to Europe, maybe grass?

    Otherwise most of the informations are outdated or biased to the finnugrian theory (it was never proven). Communists supported the uralic point of view, to bring the hungarian peoples closer to the Russian (soviet) ideas.

    A theory also well-known (still in dispute) is that the Hungarian language is a descendant of the Sumerian.
    There have been attempts, dismissed by mainstream linguists, to show that Hungarian is related to other languages including Hebrew, Egyptian, Etruscan, Basque, Persian, Pelasgian, Greek, Chinese, Sanskrit, English, Tibetan, Magar, Quechua, Armenian and at least 42 other Asian, European and even American languages.


    This is the truth, we are a big mystery even in the XXI. century.
    Last edited by Kaplony; January 23, 2010 at 02:52 PM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Okay I have a grotesq point of view,lol.You are a turuk,its indubitable,me I believe that slovens have ethiopan origins,what is jocking? " Were were opressed by austrians", the opressed may become the oppressor, I have nothing against the magyars, but history is history, in despite of atrocities commited from your people, I no said that the epurations of titist State are good things.Happily today we lived in the moderns times, in UE. I hope that never magyars or Osterreich try to make slavics their servants.Its all.
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rus-Bey View Post
    Okay I have a grotesq point of view,lol.You are a turuk,its indubitable,me I believe that slovens have ethiopan origins,what is jocking?
    Before you being ironical, go and use your net connection to get some information about genetic marker researches or historical rudimentary knowledge. Ignorance is not excuse.

    " Were were opressed by austrians", the opressed may become the oppressor, I have nothing against the magyars, but history is history, in despite of atrocities commited from your people
    Please enumerate these atrocities done by hungarians.

    I hope that never magyars or Osterreich try to make slavics their servants.Its all.
    Slavic servants? Are you Jan Slota 2 possibly? You would make it better if you would give evidences before you start defaming.
    Last edited by Kaplony; January 24, 2010 at 05:19 AM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Oh,stop insult, "Ignorance is not excuse",I had said that I know you?No so no jugdement."historical rudimentary knowledge",you don't may imagine your poor error...but I not will vanitous like you,tchao
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rus-Bey View Post
    Oh,stop insult, "Ignorance is not excuse",I had said that I know you?No so no jugdement."historical rudimentary knowledge",you don't may imagine your poor error...but I not will vanitous like you,tchao
    Every assertion what I've done is proper, you could check it by the internet, but instead of search them you revile my country. And now you name me vanitous, but you still could not defend your contentions. Learn some history, but not a panslavist one.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    I learn history in my books, in french idiome, if I have knowlegde of your idiome, or more knowlegde of english,I will may speak seriously with you...In waiting I keep my positions.And for precision I'm not a stupid and blind "panslavist" like you think.I recognise the mistakes of each one.Okay its the end's word with you...can continue your brilliant history lesson.And its not because its your country that you have rights,what think when Jean-Marie Le Pen(french nationalist) said the collaboration had been no determinant in the Holocaust?
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    He is wrong..
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    "You would make it better if you would give evidences before you start defaming."
    "because romanians, slovaks and serbs betrayed us and stolen 72% of our homeland after World War 1"
    "They were traitors and thiefs"
    "they are still stealing our cultural heritage, like some of our noble family names, our coat of arms with our doubled cross"

    can you give some evidence how slovaks and serbs stolen YOUR land after WWI?
    can you give some evidence that hungarians did live in today slovakia and serbia before slavs settled these countries?
    can you give some evidence that slovaks and serbs were thiefs or explain what do you mean by it?
    can you give some evidence that YOUR doubled cross was not in use in great moravia before hungarian's arrival to panonia?

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    Kaplony's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    After World War 1 we had to be disbanded our military forces, as we were the losing half. Romanians, serbs and czechoslovaks exploit this and marched in into our lands supported by the entente.

    Lol, our relatives the avars still had been there in 895 AD, when hungarian tribes settled. Avars were our predecessors in Pannonia. Otherwise slavs had lived only in the northwestern part of the Carpathian basin.

    How would you name someone, who stole your homeland (with your homes, schools, museums, castles, factories, forests) and your cultural heritage?

    We use the doubled cross from ancient times and a byzantine fashioned one (in our coats of arms) from the rule of Béla III. (1172-1196).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Hunnic (from Kubánvidék):



    Avaric (from Tiszavárkony):



    Hungarian (from Anarcs):



    And in our coins:



    Last edited by Kaplony; January 25, 2010 at 02:02 PM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Kaplony, please, if you consider yourself a historian you should know that if you dont have proves for your claims, you shouldnt make them.genetic structure of a land in 1000 years changes only in 1%, and 60% of Hungars are Slavs, because Hungars were very suprised with that research was done again, and again same results, also i doubt magyars are turks, even today turks from are not turks,culturaly they are turks not geneticly,
    maqgyars are steppe people, any claiming further than that is , well not enought reliable informations, magyars lost in the east and had to flee west, same as Huns and Avars before , even do Avars are seperate thing,
    i myself am croat, and we were living in one state with magyars from 1102 to 1918, a long time that is, and in medieval times we were ok, as our nobility had same rights as hungarian
    we never felt need to rebel and ask for our own state, a union with hungars was good as well
    but in 19 century Magyars tried to make us Magyars too, ban Khuen Hedervary was remembered very well in croatia,
    and lets say if magyars are relatives to avars as croats and serbs are, and culturaly we are very close
    does that mean we like each other? doesnt matter how close you are, states dont have friens
    just interests
    yes Hungary was very strong before, and magyars controled manny non-magyaric peoples
    but today you are weak, and you lost those lands same way you wonned them:by weapons

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    "yes Hungary was very strong before, and magyars controled manny non-magyaric peoples
    but today you are weak, and you lost those lands same way you wonned them:by weapons"

    this is exact, Hrobatos. there is a proverb in my slavic language, it's possible to translate it into english: they that live by the sword shall die by the sword.

    it's funny to read words about mighty magyar nation when you realize that hungary was only a few steps from financial collapse a few months ago.

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Bestia View Post
    "yes Hungary was very strong before, and magyars controled manny non-magyaric peoples
    but today you are weak, and you lost those lands same way you wonned them:by weapons"

    this is exact, Hrobatos. there is a proverb in my slavic language, it's possible to translate it into english: they that live by the sword shall die by the sword.

    it's funny to read words about mighty magyar nation when you realize that hungary was only a few steps from financial collapse a few months ago.
    tko zivi od mača i umire od mača
    that proverb in croatian
    the best example are Hettits for that

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrobatos View Post
    Kaplony, please, if you consider yourself a historian you should know that if you dont have proves for your claims, you shouldnt make them.genetic structure of a land in 1000 years changes only in 1%, and 60% of Hungars are Slavs
    I've never heard of that we are slavs, on the contrary we have many sources, archeological, antropological and genetical evidences that we are turkish type people (I signed many many sources). The east baltic or slavic race is only 10% (30% in Northern Hungary) in the population.

    also i doubt magyars are turks, even today turks from are not turks,culturaly they are turks not geneticly,
    maqgyars are steppe people, any claiming further than that is , well not enought reliable informations
    Check the researches of Professor Hideo Matsumoto.
    It is normal that we had mixed as the turks, but from this yet we have turkish origins.

    magyars lost in the east and had to flee west, same as Huns and Avars before , even do Avars are seperate thing
    I dont think avars are separate from us. There are many indications and writings show that pannonian avars and hungarians were sharing common culture and living.

    In the Kádár regime the goverment were teaching we were on the run from the pechenegs, but in the last 20 years scientists calculated it we were being more than 500.000, so we did not have to escape from them. And if we reflect on it how many times we overcame the pechenegs in the X. century - not only overcame, but forced them to settle and guard our borders - probable that happened so. Also there are no entries about this "great flight".

    and lets say if magyars are relatives to avars as croats and serbs are, and culturaly we are very close
    does that mean we like each other? doesnt matter how close you are, states dont have friens
    just interests
    yes Hungary was very strong before, and magyars controled manny non-magyaric peoples
    but today you are weak, and you lost those lands same way you wonned them:by weapons
    We alowed serbs, romans to settle in our country. If that was not good for them, they should have gone away but not steal our lands like a traitor, massacre thousands as a gratitude for our earlier kindness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Bestia View Post
    it's funny to read words about mighty magyar nation when you realize that hungary was only a few steps from financial collapse a few months ago.
    Do you find this funny? Few months, and we will hopefully sentence our post-communist , neoliberal political "elit", then will start to make a new Hungary, in the model of the once mighty Hungarian Kingdom.
    Last edited by Kaplony; January 26, 2010 at 06:10 PM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaplony View Post
    I've never heard of that we are slavs, on the contrary we have many sources, archeological, antropological and genetical evidences that we are turkish type people (I signed many many sources). The east baltic or slavic race is only 10% (30% in Northern Hungary) in the population.


    Check the researches of Professor Hideo Matsumoto.
    It is normal that we had mixed as the turks, but from this yet we have turkish origins.


    I dont think avars are separate from us. There are many indications and writings show that pannonian avars and hungarians were sharing common culture and living.

    In the Kádár regime the goverment were teaching we were on the run from the pechenegs, but in the last 20 years scientists calculated it we were being more than 500.000, so we did not have to escape from them. And if we reflect on it how many times we overcame the pechenegs in the X. century - not only overcame, but forced them to settle and guard our borders - probable that happened so. Also there are no entries about this "great flight".


    We alowed serbs, romans to settle in our country. If that was not good for them, they should have gone away but not steal our lands like a traitor, massacre thousands as a gratitude for our earlier kindness.
    yes i agree magyars are almost certanly turkish origin, but not
    geneticly, lets say when Franks conquered Gaul, there was about
    100 000 of Franks,and Gaul had 7 milion people
    and they went from western Germany to northwestern Gaul
    only movable and part of Magyars could left Asia, and they all become
    , all Magyars who were peasants were locals, at arrival
    of Magyars they were slavs, they were asimilated
    and for Huns, well huns when left Asia asimilated lot of other
    stepe people, but only smaller part of them were huns, and as
    infantry wer other non-steppe people, and soon after Ailla died
    links between Huns and asimilated broken and Huns disapeared
    Avars are litle weird as there was two avar khaganats, first were
    europeid race, and later from east they were conquered by
    asian race, because of similarity of warfare and organization
    Europe called them Avars as well, their real name is unknown
    this is known because of skeletons that were found
    about croats, at some time in first half of 7 century an army
    arrived from Belochrobatia( white croatia) that had 30-50 000 men
    teritory they conquered had about 1.5 milions people who were partly
    slavs and mostly local romanized ilyrans so genetic structure couldnt
    be changed much, but culture did, nations are cultural groups
    not genetical
    most people( you as well) belive that whole nations went into new
    land but this is wrong, only armies went if the land isnt very close
    so it could be colonized,
    you see molst people belive lot of slavs came into balkan, but no
    in croatia there is 30% of slav genom, in northern part,while in
    central and south almost none, in bosnia that is 20%, in serbia
    and bulgaria 15%,in Greece 10%,
    and i agree for serbs, they came from what is now south serbia and kosovo
    went into south hungary(today northern serbia and Vojvodina) and
    bosnia and croatia, but they wonned those lands, hungary was strong
    and conquered them, hungary was weak and lost them, thats the way things
    are
    i mean we have chosen wrong side in WW2 and we had to live next 50
    years in comunistic Yugoslavia, thats the way things are
    even if Hitler did won the war
    i am not sure that would be victory for anybody except nazis
    so we would probably be forced to become Germans, well it would
    be better faith than things that were planed for most other nations
    well the way things became is the best for us, we were not forced to
    be magyars nor germans nor yugoslavens, we remained croats
    yes i am somewhat right-winged when it comes to politics, almost
    ustascha
    also another thing, do you belive that there was personal union
    between croatia and hungary or that croatia was conquered?
    you are hungarian ultranacionalist so i wonder about answer

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