Gunpowder units are being mean!

[Amry]

Good day gents (and ladies, if applicable),

I am currently playing as the noble, peace-loving English, who is currently under attack by her devious, terrorist (i.e., rebel)-harboring, freedom-hating neighbours. Throughout most of my game, the battles have been straightforward; I field my Retinue Longbowmen, use my cavalry to lure the enemy within my RL's range, and it's sharp pointy death to all concerned.

However, those... heathens, who completely lack any chivalrous bone in their festering carcasses, have recently fielded weapons that allow a peasant to kill a noble knight (surely this is witchcraft?), and this is seriously crimping my valiant efforts to "liberate" parts of the mainland. For example, in a recent battle, the dastardly French (boo! Hiss!) fielded large numbers of Adventurines (sp.), who turned my brave knights into mincemeat before they can get into range and mercifully slaughter those lowborns. Alas, my own gunpower infantry, the Aque.. whatever the name is, is quite inadequate for the job, since they are really unwieldy and asking them to face a particular direction is like trying to herd a group of cats.

Therefore, assistance for the following problem is needed:

How can I deal with the more advanced gunpowder infantry with the selection of English troops? Cavalry charge, as I found out, is quite ineffective against massed riflemen. I contemplated using the 'ol "lots of RL" strategy, but if 6 RLs goes against 6 Adventurines, wouldn't the morale-busting effect of the Adventurines mean that my RLs will scream like little girls after a short while, therefore making them ineffective? And using artillery (like Culverines)... well, I'd be surprised if they can hit the side of a barn, ineffective, useless things that they are.

[Fakir]

... is like trying to herd a group of cats.

Very good!

[Nazgûl Killer]

Good day gents (and ladies, if applicable),

I am currently playing as the noble, peace-loving English, who is currently under attack by her devious, terrorist (i.e., rebel)-harboring, freedom-hating neighbours. Throughout most of my game, the battles have been straightforward; I field my Retinue Longbowmen, use my cavalry to lure the enemy within my RL's range, and it's sharp pointy death to all concerned.

However, those... heathens, who completely lack any chivalrous bone in their festering carcasses, have recently fielded weapons that allow a peasant to kill a noble knight (surely this is witchcraft?), and this is seriously crimping my valiant efforts to "liberate" parts of the mainland. For example, in a recent battle, the dastardly French (boo! Hiss!) fielded large numbers of Adventurines (sp.), who turned my brave knights into mincemeat before they can get into range and mercifully slaughter those lowborns. Alas, my own gunpower infantry, the Aque.. whatever the name is, is quite inadequate for the job, since they are really unwieldy and asking them to face a particular direction is like trying to herd a group of cats.

Therefore, assistance for the following problem is needed:

How can I deal with the more advanced gunpowder infantry with the selection of English troops? Cavalry charge, as I found out, is quite ineffective against massed riflemen. I contemplated using the 'ol "lots of RL" strategy, but if 6 RLs goes against 6 Adventurines, wouldn't the morale-busting effect of the Adventurines mean that my RLs will scream like little girls after a short while, therefore making them ineffective? And using artillery (like Culverines)... well, I'd be surprised if they can hit the side of a barn, ineffective, useless things that they are.

Well, I think that in this case you have to use the advantage of terrain.
Hide your cavalry in the woods and slaughter the enemy, hide them behind hills and charge when it is time and so on and so on while the rest of your troops trying and fend the impending assault.

A good idea also is to stay on top of hills, gunners are TERRIBLE at firing upwards (Heck, they're terrible no matter what), so it should minimize your casualties.

Also, Culverins don't have to hit, they have to hit the morale, and they always do. All it takes is two explosive hits from a Culverin and the morale drops to like 50%.

[Don_yuri]

Gunners are garbage, what you should do is get a couple mortars. OR send some canon fodder in before your knights(aka militia or peasants) theyll rout like little babies and then your knights in shining armor can charge the enemy gunners without getting shot at. When I use my gunners, they only get 1 volley in before the enemy charges them, so you could just sent all you army at once and you would barely take any casualties.

[MooseUpNorth]

I've been doing some testing of ranged troops. Against light infantry, against heavy infantry, and against Timurid Elephants.

Gunpowder units don't react well to pressure. Their shooting drill is slow and ineffective, and they react very poorly to counter-fire (constantly reforming). That said, when properly supported, two or three musketeers (supported by archers or crossbows) can frenzy Elephants very quickly. Often in as little as two or three massed volleys. The Elephants will start dying at this point as well.

Three units of archers can also frenzy Elephants, but they're unable to kill them.

Three units of pavise crossbows can kill elephants (three volleys before the first one dies), and they can rout them pretty consistently (three or four volleys), but the elephants will rout, not frenzy. On the other hand, pavise crossbows tolerate counterfire very well.

I'm thinking if you position pavise crossbows at the front, and flank using musketeers or (elite) archers, you'll have pretty good odds of surviving an Elephant heavy stack in the field.

[PoleCat]

And remember that Heavy Billmen also work well against elephants although they will take casualties.

[John Doe]

Personally, I never understood why ppl still use archer when they can use crossbow: They have armour piercing arrows, and they can shoot running cavalry. That's what you want against those Aventuriers (the best missile infantry imo), not some stick thrower.
Put your army on formation with cavalry in front, then crossbow and then infantry. Try to put them on higher ground. Wait for them to advance and when close enough, get your heavy cavalry to walk towards them, as soon as they start their reloading routine, charge, with good timing (and some high ground advantage) you'll hit them before they shoot. I would not compromise my general though.

[Fakir]

I would not compromise my general though.

Not unless you're the Stainless Steel AI.

[Amry]

Thank you for the replies.

As the English, I do not have access to Crossbow units (unless if I hire mercenaries... but why should I? Do I look like the cowardly Milanese or something?) And after a weekend's worth of tinkering, I think I've hit the right formula.

I discovered that the best unit balance will be having 3 Arquebusier supported by 3 or 4 Retinue / Yeoman archers. This ensures a steady stream of attacks on the advancing enemy gunpowder units, therefore making them rout a lot faster. Of course, some casualties to my Arqies will happen, but they can be trained quite cheaply anyway.

And to their credit, I find my Arquebusiers to be quite tough. Even after being charged head-on by heavy infantry, they would rarely lose more than 20 men, and they have great morale, almost on par with my Armored Swordsmen.

And I have finally learned to love other gunpowder-based artillery units. It feels really satisfying attacking and taking over an enemy city in one turn, using my Culverins to turn enemy towers to rubble. And I LOLed when the enemy king charged at my artillery piece (the one with short range and nine barrels.. forgot its name), only to rout after taking a blast (and the king was killed as he was fleeing).

[KarlzBalla]

And I LOLed when the enemy king charged at my artillery piece (the one with short range and nine barrels.. forgot its name), only to rout after taking a blast (and the king was killed as he was fleeing).

ribault. Maybe i will need to use some of these anti elephant tactics rather than trying to mass artillery shell them into running amok

[MooseUpNorth]

As the English, I do not have access to Crossbow units (unless if I hire mercenaries... but why should I? Do I look like the cowardly Milanese or something?) And after a weekend's worth of tinkering, I think I've hit the right formula.

As the English, you don't really need 'em. Your elite archers use armor piercing arrows. (And stakes, but I'm not bitter.) Bascially, you get the advantages of AP fire with flame arrows and faster volleys.

I've yet to test them to see how they react to counterfire, but I imagine they'll handle it about as well as venetian archers do (which I have tested). Which means against Elephants, they'll take casulties, but they'll win.

[death2u4519]

the dastardly French (boo! Hiss!)

So not cool you panzy =.=

[Hakomar]

... have recently fielded weapons that allow a peasant to kill a noble knight (surely this is witchcraft?)

The English used peasant longbowmen who slaughtered french noble knights, famous examples are agincourt and crecy.

Just to be picky, I have little knowledge of defeating them, as said, use terrain and cannon fodder to your advantage. Remember - horses can destroy them. Unfortunately, there is usually an infantry line behind, so provoke the enemy to come to you with a few missile shots, and destroy them as quickly as you can.

Sorry for the lack of information, I originally came here to be extremely picky over this, to me.

[lawless_sage]

i use culvarins all the time and after a while of exchanged missile and artillery fire i usually am able to kill the enemy general just by a artillery shot and at that point i just charge my infantry and cavalry and the enemy has lost so much morale that they usually route in no time at all usually seconds after the infantry engagement

[Amry]

Hey, my thread is still alive.

I've restarted my game and played the Moors. And at certain points of the game, I was stuck with the idea, "you know what, I think I can win this battle with a stack full of Camel Gunners and one heavy cavalry".

I mean seriously, how ridiculously overpowered can you get? The guns are damaging, and the camels are very mobile, and they can shoot while moving! I just move my Camels to the enemy's flanks and rear and let 'em rip.

[lawless_sage]

Hey, my thread is still alive.

I've restarted my game and played the Moors. And at certain points of the game, I was stuck with the idea, "you know what, I think I can win this battle with a stack full of Camel Gunners and one heavy cavalry".

I mean seriously, how ridiculously overpowered can you get? The guns are damaging, and the camels are very mobile, and they can shoot while moving! I just move my Camels to the enemy's flanks and rear and let 'em rip.

i tried that against he English except it wasn't a stack but just allot of camel gunners and it actually worked i mean the English routed like crazy after a continues period of fire