Whether or not all the facts are getting out...

[JP226]

on healthcare, I can't say I'm too terribly upset that Senators and House Members have to actually answer to their constituents:



and Scott is the biggest that needs his knee caps broken



And there are others that i'll put up as I find them.

Point being about all this, I understand misinformation exists, I accept that. However I'm not completely sold on the idea that Congress DOESN"T deserve this kind of fury, whether or not I agree with universal healthcare, and I don't for the record. The government, whether it's American or European or African or MENA or whomever, is an ugly bloated and unrepentent bastardization of what it should be. It's healthy to protest and get in it's face WHEN protestation is honest questioning. IE Code pink and the other retarded fools that run around with these dumbass "chain themselves to a tree" nonsense do not count. I'd even be willing to throw the people wearing uncle sam outfits holding onto teabags in that category to an extent. The goal is to effectively spark legitimate debate which this in many cases seems to do. I won't say most because I don't know one way or the other.

[justicar5]

Thats legitimate debate, the loons who turn up by the bus load, bought over by health insurance companies, are not.

[danzig]

Thats legitimate debate, the loons who turn up by the bus load, bought over by health insurance companies, are not.

Agreed but its hilarious the congressman starts yelling at the guy claiming he doesnt live in the district when *drumroll* he does and isnt even a registered republican. As bad as the tactics by *some* people are in their opposition to Obama/Democrats plan it is clear a large number of Democratic politicians are trying to stifle the debate and shut it down. Its hilarious this morning Today show ran a segment about the "meanness" of opposition, posters with Obama as Hitler, socialist etc asking is this crossing the line etc but yet I never ever saw NBC or any of the other networks mention the Bush = Hitler stuff.

The polls I linked to paint a much more accurate picture than you are trying to portray. The fact is that majority of Americans are divided on ideological lines. I cite polls from Zogby and Gallup because they are non partisan. Its hard to lend much credibility to Rasmussen when every political ad they host is right-wing and every endorsement they tout is from a right-winger. It’s evident they are in the business of telling right-wingers what they want to hear. Would you trust a site that had only left-leaning political ads?

Uh Rasmussen is a respected polling outlet and if you are going to use ads to dismiss them then you are going to have to dismiss Zogby given HIS background give he is a life long democrat, his brother a member of DNC etc. So if Scott Rasmussen can be dismissed (which btw he was the most accurate poller in 2008 election) then John Zogby must be dismissed as well. Btw looking at the ads on mainpage atm are Worldvision child sponosorship, Dunkin Donuts and one political ad for Capitalconnect...yeah its just flowing with right wing ads! Nevermind the fact their ad banners are handled by a 3rd party company, may as well say TWC supports everything in their banner ad at the top.

[s.rwitt]

And there are others that i'll put up as I find them.

There are a ****ton of others. I've never seen a backlash like this.

I do, however, find it funny that the Dems would call this "manufactured anger" and then put on a display such as Obama's "townhall" meeting. Nevermind their Ad's calling the anti-Obamacare people "Nazis, KKK, political terrorists" and "rabid mobs". They, of course, forget the facts that:

1.) Most of these people are mad at the Republicans as well for not standing up to this nonsense.
2.) A good amount of the people yelling at Congressmen have been registered Democrats and have said so.

BTW: Apparently, according to Nancy Pelosi, those that are against Obama's Healthcare reform are not only "Swastika carrying" Nazis but are also "unamerican". Because they don't support the Democrats cramming passing something that the majority of Americans do not support. Interesting logic Nancy...

[justicar5]

There are a ****ton of others. I've never seen a backlash like this.

I do, however, find it funny that the Dems would call this "manufactured anger" and then put on a display such as Obama's "townhall" meeting. Nevermind their Ad's calling the anti-Obamacare people "Nazis, KKK, political terrorists" and "rabid mobs". They, of course, forget the facts that:

1.) Most of these people are mad at the Republicans as well for not standing up to this nonsense.
2.) A good amount of the people yelling at Congressmen have been registered Democrats and have said so.

BTW: Apparently, according to Nancy Pelosi, those that are against Obama's Healthcare reform are not only "Swastika carrying" Nazis but are also "unamerican". Because they don't support the Democrats cramming passing something that the majority of Americans do not support. Interesting logic Nancy...

it would be interesting to find out exactly why they oppose the bill, i.e the ratio who don't think it goes far enough to the people wh think it goes to far. Because the guy in the first video was going on about pockets stuffed with lobbiest cash, now the biggest lobby on this issue is anti.

[A pimp named Slickback]

Their looniness is but a kind reflection of their master:

[JP226]

BTW: Apparently, according to Nancy Pelosi, those that are against Obama's Healthcare reform are not only "Swastika carrying" Nazis but are also "unamerican". Because they don't support the Democrats cramming passing something that the majority of Americans do not support. Interesting logic Nancy...

Pelosi has to be one of if not the worst speaker of the house in American History. I hate that woman not only for her out and out stupidity, but for being oh so ambitious at the same time. She one time said, I don't recall the number off the top of my head exactly but, 500 million americans will lose their jobs a month if we don't pass the last disasterous stimulus bill.

[s.rwitt]

it would be interesting to find out exactly why they oppose the bill,

I'm sure the reasons are varied, I'm genuinely convinced it's a grass roots type of deal. But the fact is that the majority of Americans don't support his plan and the Dems are feeling it from their constituents in a way that I've never seen. In my opinion what we really need is tort reform, not healthcare run by the same people who run the disasters known as Social Security and Medicare.

The other day, someone actually used the VA as an example of why Government run healthcare would be sucessful

She one time said, I don't recall the number off the top of my head exactly but, 500 million americans will lose their jobs a month if we don't pass the last disasterous stimulus bill.

That's exactly what she said. In fact she said it twice. Then, when someone finally informed her that 500 million Americans simply don't exist, she said that she misread or something along those lines. Not to mention the ridiculously hillarious comments she gave during the whole "CIA briefing" thing.

[justicar5]

I'm sure the reasons are varied, I'm genuinely convinced it's a grass roots type of deal. But the fact is that the majority of Americans don't support his plan and the Dems are feeling it from their constituents in a way that I've never seen. In my opinion what we really need is tort reform, not healthcare run by the same people who run the disasters known as Social Security and Medicare.

The other day, someone actually used the VA as an example of why Government run healthcare would be sucessful

The problem ofc is that their sin't a 'plan' yet, all the indicators are that if their is a pbulic option, it will be just that, an option, but either way, until the commitees get there collective act together, we wont know.

[JP226]

Dems made a big mistake by trying to out republican the conservative republicans it seems. A liberal and conservative base isn't exactly a winning stretegy it would seem. Who knew?

[s.rwitt]

The problem ofc is that their sin't a 'plan' yet, all the indicators are that if their is a pbulic option, it will be just that, an option, but either way, until the commitees get there collective act together, we wont know.

There's a bill written that many Dem senators have said they haven't read, they said it's "too long". It's the same bill Obama was trying to get Congress to vote on before the recess.

In fact, it's right here:

http://patientsunitednow.com/?q=node/233

[Disaray]

There's a bill written that many Dem senators have said they haven't read, they said it's "too long". It's the same bill Obama was trying to get Congress to vote on before the recess.

In fact, it's right here:

http://patientsunitednow.com/?q=node/233

Why would the Senate read a bill that hasn't even been passed by the House of Repersentatives? I don't care if it is one thousnd pages long or four pages long why would any Sentor read HR 3200? You are aware that the system dosen't work like that right? You do know how a bill becomes a law right?

As for this movment not having the suport of the people you are wrong. The latest Galop pole says that 58% of the poeple are in favor of some kind of public option like the kind described in HR 3200. Is 58% not the majorty any more?

That is a nice little website you have there. Too bad it is full of and run by Americans for Prosperity who is being paid literal truck loads of money by the health insurance loby to keep things they way they are now by busing in protesters to town hall meetings and other "intresting" tactics.

[JP226]

The problem ofc is that their sin't a 'plan' yet, all the indicators are that if their is a pbulic option, it will be just that, an option, but either way, until the commitees get there collective act together, we wont know.

Even if the plan is a public option, that's going to carry ripple effects that people who are accustomed to the status quo aren't going to like. The very basic jist is that you are stretching a market that supplies the US pop less 45 million. Resources are going to be stretched and those that get care now will have to expect less care in the future. If we're going to expand it that much, there are going to be problems.

There's a bill written that many Dem senators have said they haven't read. It's the same bill Obama was trying to get Congress to vote on before the recess.

a damn 1000 page bill. I read legislation as a living and let me tell you, however long a bill is officially, multiply it by three because it is referring to other statues and provisions that you have to read as well. And then you have to hammer down what the bill is actually saying which is a job in and unto itself. They throw out these 1000 pagers to push votes through and it's probably the most corrupt way to get any bill across.

[s.rwitt]

The very basic jist is that you are stretching a market that supplies the US pop less 45 million.

Actually the real number is about 15 million. The "46 million Americans" that the White House uses includes around 10 million foreign citizens, including illegal immigrants, and another 10-11 million generally young people with who turn down paying for healthcare even though it's available to them. Obama manipulated facts, who would have guessed, right?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2272756/posts

[JP226]

they still want to cover those people and it's going to cause problems. The system isn't as burden with them taking it as needed. The system now CAN cover those people based on economic distributions. But bringing them into the fold with the other 15 or so million to absolutely have healthcare causes issues.

[JP226]

Why would the Senate read a bill that hasn't even been passed by the House of Repersentatives? I don't care if it is one thousnd pages long or four pages long why would any Sentor read HR 3200? You are aware that the system dosen't work like that right? You do know how a bill becomes a law right?

they have to get ideas from somewhere or atleast make sure their ideas are inline with others. You think this stuff is plucked out of the air arbitrarily?

[s.rwitt]

Why would the Senate read a bill that hasn't even been passed by the House of Repersentatives? I don't care if it is one thousnd pages long or four pages long why would any Sentor read HR 3200? You are aware that the system dosen't work like that right? You do know how a bill becomes a law right?

The problem isn't that they haven't read it. The problem is that they said it would require too much work to do so and said they support it.... even though they haven't read it.

You obviously don't have a problem with this. Which is even more scary than the actions of these politicians.

Sounds like the "Stimulus bill" all over again.

As for this movment not having the suport of the people you are wrong. The latest Galop pole says that 58% of the poeple are in favor of some kind of public option like the kind described in HR 3200. Is 58% not the majorty any more?

Is that right!?

From Gallup:

59% majority say his proposals call for too much government spending and 52% say they call for too much expansion of government power.

By 50%-44%, they disapprove of how he is handling health care policy

------------------

That is a nice little website you have there. Too bad it is full of and run by Americans for Prosperity who is being paid literal truck loads of money by the health insurance loby to keep things they way they are now by busing in protesters to town hall meetings and other "intresting" tactics.

Yeah, I guess those people showing up across the country showing their disapproval of Obama's plan are being paid "truck loads of money" to keep things the way they are now right? Nevermind the drug company lobbyiests funding senators and ads to support this "healthcare" reform.

[JP226]

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8292819 here's another vid

[FuZe]

These hecklers are not interested in an honest discussion, they just want to self-righteously spout off their vitriol. As if the one who shouts the loudest must be right. These are brown-shirt tactics; unthinking, ignorant and unpatriotic.

This discussion needs to revolve around facts, not in shouting down those who disagree with you.

[s.rwitt]

There's been plenty of discussion about the issue as well, but those videos generally don't make the news. Then again, how are these Senators supposed to discuss the issue when the majority of them haven't read the bill they're supporting?

Hell, even Obama says he's "not too familiar" with the bill! But he wanted it passed in two weeks...

During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept running into an Investors Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/21/...TOKEN=89494121