Etymology of the word "Vlach" and its historical implications

[Romano-Dacis]

Alright, so recently I did a self-motivated research project on this term and made a youtube out of it to conclude my research. Feel free to watch at your leisure. Sorry if you find my voice annoying.

However, one thing I was quite interested in while researching was the position of a Traian Stoianovich, who wrote in Balkan Worlds: The First and Last Europe:

The name ‘Vlach’ itself may come from the name of a partly Romanized Celtic population, the Volcae. One group of Volcae had migrated from the middle Danube to Languedoc (between the Rhone and Toulouse). The rest stayed in place, perhaps in the valley of Oulkos (medieval Volka, contemporary Vuka) or moved eastward or southeastward. The Slavs themselves associated the name ‘Volka’ with their own word for ‘wolf,’ suggesting in turn the possible earlier presence in the area of a Romanized Dacian population. For the earlier name of the Dacians was Daoi, probably meaning ‘wolves’ and suggesting a totemic relationship between Dacians and wolves. In effect, a portion of the Dacian youth may have been organized as a martial brotherhood whose ritual name was Wolves. That name was later extended to the whole population of western Dacia, while their kin in the Black Sea area continued to be known as Getae

Honestly, this is the first time I have ever read this theory, but is it possible that the term "Vlach" may also have a totemistic association? After all, the draco standard, often looking like a wolf's head, which was used by the Dacians and Sarmatians, was eventually adopted by the Romans. Could barbarians have associated this standard with those people and began referring to them by their totem of "wolf"? Or is this complete BS?

What about this? http://brunodam.blog.kataweb.it/2008...alkansbalkans/
The notion that Volos, a Slavic pagan diety, became associated with "Vlachs". Is there any truth to this at all, or is it just more intellectual garbage? Some have even tried to link the name to the Roman god Vulcan, not stating that Vlach came from Vulcan, but rather that both words are associated with foreign entitites.
http://www.circassianworld.com/Satanaya_Cycle.pdf

Warzamas is never a smith, though some work has tried to link his name with that of the
Roman Vulcan, (*vļ-k-an- → Lat. Vulcanus, *vļ-k-an-mégha- → Iranian *warzan-ma-γa- →

Ossetic Uryzmæg, Shapsegh West Circassian (borrowing) /warzamagy/, perhaps based upon
the root *wel-(s)k- for ‘foreigner’ seen in English ‘Welsh,’ Latin ‘Volscii,’ Balkan ‘Vlach,’
Germanic (?borrowing from Keltic) *folk-, i.e., smiths were foreigners, outside the tribal structure).

Anyway, my remaining question is: is there an exact record of where, when, and how the term walh crossed over from designating Celtic people to designating Latins?

[bushbush]

i wish my summer is as fun as yours....sigh....

[Romano-Dacis]

i wish my summer is as fun as yours....sigh....

Well you just have to find a topic you like... and pray to god you have enough time to study it.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

That's interesting! Knowing the history of the Volcae themselves, it should be evident that a certain Celtic influence passed upon Getic tribes of the time. Isn't there a correlation between the "Daoi" and the Gallo-Thracians themselves, who were part of the original bands of the Volcae Celts?

I guess the etymology of the word becomes clear when seen through these lights. The Dacians were first smacked by the Celts earlier in the history, then proceeded to defeat them and annihilate (more or less) any Celtic presence that wasn't swallowed by the Romans, so it is very possible that they or their Celt overlords might have used the word "Volcae" to denominate themselves, their tribes and their spoil - It also might be possible that Gallo-Thracians and other tribes with greater Celtic influence might have been tempted to adopt the actual Getic word for "Wolves", which would be a close cognate with "Volcae".

[Manco]

I can't see the vid itself (damn smallband), but are you proposing some link between the Volcae and the Getae?

Just basing it on the name Vlach is a bit tenuous no? Since it's pretty much agreed to come from the Germanic *walla which had become a word to denounce all non-Germanic people as opposed to the *theudiskaz (did I spell that one right?)

[My Favorite Martian]

It seems clear that the word walh, wealh which the English brought with them was a common Germanic name for a man of what we should call Celtic speech. But in all the recorded Germanic languages in which it appears it was also applied to the speakers of Latin. That may be due, as is usually assumed, to the fact that Latin eventually occupied most of the areas of Celtic speech within the knowledge of Germanic peoples. But it is, I think, also in part a linguistic judgement, reflecting that very similarity in style of Latin and Gallo-Brittonic that I have already mentioned. It did not occur to anyone to call a Goth a walh even if he was long settled in Italy or in Gaul. Though ‘foreigner’ is often given as the first gloss on wealh in Anglo-Saxon dictionaries this is misleading. The word was not applied to foreigners of Germanic speech, nor to those of alien tongues, Lapps, Finns, Esthonians, Lithuanians, Slavs, or Huns, with whom the Germanic-speaking peoples came into contact in early times. (But borrowed in Old Slavonic in the form ulachu it was applied to the Roumanians.) It was, therefore, basically a word of linguistic import; and in itself implied in its users more linguistic curiosity and discrimination than the simple stupidity of the Greek barbaros.

J.R.R. Tolkien, English and Welsh, page 17.

-> http://druidry.org/board/photos/englishandwelsh.pdf

Related to Tolkien's explanation

English and Welsh is the title of J. R. R. Tolkien's valedictory address to the University of Oxford of 1955, explaining the origin of the word "Welsh". In a lengthy sidenote, Tolkien discusses his notions of "native tongue" as opposed to "cradle tongue", and of an inherited taste of language. The lecture sheds light on Tolkien's conceptions of the connections of race, ethnicity and language.

-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_and_Welsh

Collection of forms of words (contains various forms in various languages with a short explanation).
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_term_Vlach
-> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_du_terme_Vlach

Related to the etymology
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walha (English)
-> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsche (German)
-> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walh (French)
-> http://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsch (allamanic German)
-> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valacchi (Italian)
-> http://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valland (Norsk)
-> http://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walsch (bavarian German)
(self-speaking links)

[clandestino]

I'm sure that it's good article but I would like to see it in writen form, I had problem with following the naration. Can you write it down?
Who is Traian Stojanovic?
I don't think that the name has anything to do with wolves, altough Volcae sounds like wolves in Serbian ( old form vlk-transitional form volk-modern form vuk ) and even more in FYROManian (volk ). But it would only have sense if Celtic word for wolf sounds something like that, do we have some Gaelic or Welsh speaker here to give his oppinion? Generally Vlachs are very interesting subject for me I look forward to see any new article about them here

[snipa]

omg, RD u have hungarophobia... maybe u need a doctor ;-), can u help me why u always use hungarian documents and chronicles when u are talking about Transylvania?
pls use your "own" roman-daco-vlach-whoever documents...

http://www.youtube.com/user/CodrulCXI

when i need joke time i'll just check your site, lol...

but i help u:
Daco-Romans == rumenian fictions
vlach (migration people around 1200 from south balkan) != dacians (disappear in 3th century)

hope its clear now...

[iudas]

omg, RD u have hungarophobia... maybe u need a doctor ;-), can u help me why u always use hungarian documents and chronicles when u are talking about Transylvania?
pls use your "own" roman-daco-vlach-whoever documents...

http://www.youtube.com/user/CodrulCXI

when i need joke time i'll just check your site, lol...

but i help u:
Daco-Romans == rumenian fictions
vlach (migration people around 1200 from south balkan) != dacians (disappear in 3th century)

hope its clear now...

I'll only say one thing.

Give me your evidence for the immigration theory.

[Carpathian Wolf]

They couldn't migrate from south Balkan cause that area is south from Jirecek line which means that predominant language there was Greek not Latin while Rumanian is Romance language. Anyway theory that Vlachs ( mainly shepherds ) emigrated from relatively safe and secure montanious Balkan to planes of Valachia which were under constant threat from Cumans sounds highly unlikely. Not to mention the figures, there are more Romanians then Serbs and Bulgarians together, so if the Vlachs migrated from Balkan that would be huge scale migration that would leave great part of Balkans unpopulated. Second there is no single contemporary Serbian, Ragusan, Greek or Bulgarian source that mentions this migration which undoubtedly wouldn't pass unnoticed if it had happened. On contrary since the late 12th century Vlachs are frequently mentioned in Serbian sources, especially in charters, in large numbers which actually indicate increase of Vlach population not the decrease.

Clearly the Vlachs are all ninjas. Not only ninjas but shepherd ninjas. You know what that means? Damn straight, ninja sheep. You know what else that means? I'm in your house right now, me and my ninja sheep clan. We're in your walls. Shhhh

///////////

Good vid as usual RD. I'm not too sure about the Volcae/Walah link but certainly the Walah, Vlach one. I remember reading one theory that the name Vlach came from some Roman noble in Constantinople named Blachinos or something of tha sort.

[clandestino]

They couldn't migrate from south Balkan cause that area is south from Jirecek line which means that predominant language there was Greek not Latin while Rumanian is Romance language. Anyway theory that Vlachs ( mainly shepherds ) emigrated from relatively safe and secure montanious Balkan to planes of Valachia which were under constant threat from Cumans sounds highly unlikely. Not to mention the figures, there are more Romanians then Serbs and Bulgarians together, so if the Vlachs migrated from Balkan that would be huge scale migration that would leave great part of Balkans unpopulated. Second there is no single contemporary Serbian, Ragusan, Greek or Bulgarian source that mentions this migration which undoubtedly wouldn't pass unnoticed if it had happened. On contrary since the late 12th century Vlachs are frequently mentioned in Serbian sources, especially in charters, in large numbers which actually indicate increase of Vlach population not the decrease.

[diegis]

Alright, so recently I did a self-motivated research project on this term and made a youtube out of it to conclude my research. Feel free to watch at your leisure. Sorry if you find my voice annoying.

However, one thing I was quite interested in while researching was the position of a Traian Stoianovich, who wrote in Balkan Worlds: The First and Last Europe:

Honestly, this is the first time I have ever read this theory, but is it possible that the term "Vlach" may also have a totemistic association? After all, the draco standard, often looking like a wolf's head, which was used by the Dacians and Sarmatians, was eventually adopted by the Romans. Could barbarians have associated this standard with those people and began referring to them by their totem of "wolf"? Or is this complete BS

I read too somewhere this hypotesis, that slavs used the word "vulk" (close to name "valach/vlah"), meaning "wolf" to name the "daco-romanians". Because the cult of wolf is present even today in romanian popular traditions (especialy in Bucovina or area called Platoul Luncanilor, close to the dacian center of power in Transilvania), and the night of St. Andrew is the in the popular tradition the night of wolves and strigoi, St. Andrew, very interesting, being considered by the Church the protector of Romania, and in the same time the patron of the wolves.

[clandestino]

Clearly the Vlachs are all ninjas. Not only ninjas but shepherd ninjas. You know what that means? Damn straight, ninja sheep. You know what else that means? I'm in your house right now, me and my ninja sheep clan. We're in your walls. Shhhh

Have I said something wrong?

[ciprianrusu]

Have I said something wrong?

No, I think he was mocking snipa.

[Carpathian Wolf]

No, I think he was mocking snipa.

[The Noble Lord]

In the Serbian Tsar Dushan's 'Zakonik' or code of Law that was produced in the early 1300s, there are specific penalties for villages inhabited by Vlachs. They were clearly people that were present in large numbers all over the Balkan peninsula. The question is: who are they and where they come from??

[Carpathian Wolf]

In the Serbian Tsar Dushan's 'Zakonik' or code of Law that was produced in the early 1300s, there are specific penalties for villages inhabited by Vlachs. They were clearly people that were present in large numbers all over the Balkan peninsula. The question is: who are they and where they come from??

Vlachs are the Romanized Thracian, Dacian and Illyrian peoples of the Balkans. Where did they come from? They were always in the Balkans. A better question is...where did many of them go?

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

The only thing I know about the word Vlach is that it is were the place name Wallachia came from.. not much else.. however I thought it came from the word "Walha" sp? which was a Germanic word for a Romance speaking people... or so I have heard.

[clandestino]

Speaking of large numbers, according to founding chartres of Serbian Banjska monastery ( 1315 ), Decani monastery ( 1330 ) and Saint Archangels monastery ( 1343 ) , all of them located in Kosovo and Metohija, these monasteries received as a grant from Serbian rulers total number of 25 Vlach katuns ( shepherd communities ) consisting of 1217 households while monastery of Hilandar received during two centuries another 3 catuns with 150 households in Kosovo. That gives total of 1367 Vlach households belonging to just these four Serbian monasteries just in territory of Kosovo and Metohija.
link:K.J Jirecek, Geschichte der Serben, Gotha 1911 ( in German )

[clandestino]

In the areas of western and central Balkans they were totaly assimilated, for example already in late 12th and early 13teen century huge majority of Vlachs in Serbia and Bosnia had pure Serbian names and surnames as one sign of assimilation. By the end of Middle ages due to assimilation term '' Vlach '' practically lost it's ethnic conotation and became term for semi-nomadic cattlemen. It's interesting that some of the Serbian clans in Montenegro like Drobnjaci were recorded as Vlachs in 15-16 century, while today they are regarded as one of the purest Serbian stocks. Similarly the Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia were partly descendants of local Vlachs who eventually identified them as Serbs due to intermarring with Serbs and religious adherence to Serbian Orthodox church.