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Thread: Battle Tactics

  1. #1

    Default Battle Tactics

    Right well I thought people could maybe share their in-game battle tactics, as in if you have certain tactics yourself with whatever armies. What you do to counter certain things/ How you set up your phalanx lines, any thing special? I quite liked using the Theban-style setup that was a pre-set but unfortunately that was removed, I think, from the latest release.

    I was also wondering- Do you think Alexander's tactic he used at Gaugamela would work in game? I mean riding his cavalry right along the enemy line till a gap opened up then charge into it? Just when you play against AI and move your troops the AI seems to follow suit and move around a bit, I am wondering if charging in to the gap would work though. Since it seems most engaged cavalry don't last too long in-game. It would probably work against a phalanx that didn't have their pikes levelled at the charge since a charge into the flanks usually cuts them to pieces.
    In fact I am going to go try this now and see what happens.

  2. #2
    messiah's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    I usually have a solid general plan which I twist as the battle progresses, but I still try as hard as I can to follow it. I like fighting as the Macedonians the best, so I usually do like this:

    Phalanx: P
    Archers/Peltasts/Slingers: M
    Cavalry: C
    Hoplites with spears, not pikes: H

    ___.PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP____
    HHH_____MMMMMMM_____HHH
    CC_________CC_________CC

    (The cavalry are at the wings behind the hoplites.)

    Basic plan: when the enemy get's close I get a volley of javelins. If I have slingers or archers they just continue firing. The Phalanx hold the line and usually the enemy sends some infantry or cavalry units around my flanks. There I engage with my Hoplites and surround with Cavalry. After that battle is done and hopefully my phalanx still holds, the Hoplites come from the sides and the back while the cavalry comes only from the back (light cavalry detached to chase missile units). I make a box and the enemy quickly routs, but there is no escape.

    As for the Alexander's Gaugamela tactic: I have tried it numerous times in mods and vanilla and I pretty much always won but with some heavy casualties on the cavalry side.

    I'll post more tactics tomorrow.
    Last edited by RedFox; August 10, 2009 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Fixed the formation


  3. #3

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    if im using a phalnx faction i ussally make a couple rows of units. i usally have very limited amonut of calvary 1 missile unit very rarly and no light infantry

    phalnx units-p
    archers skimisher-m
    calvary-c

    pppppp
    _pppp_
    __m__
    _pppp_
    _ppp_
    __c__

    i find that by doing this im very flexible on the flanks and always have a reserve unit. the missle unit normally counters theres or soaks up there misslie fire. and my calvary is used to chase down routing units. that leaves all the flanking and hard fighting to my pahalnx. i cant think of a time that i ever lost against the AI using this formation because i can always throw is fresh units to reinforce tired ones or if needed create a noob square very fast. the only weakness to this formation is ALOT of archers. also this is a deffensive formation but when i do go on the offensive i kinda use my army as a battering ram, breaking right through the center of there army and moving out on the flanks.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Ah, interesting. You use no mobile troops such as Hoplites/Thorak to defend your phalanx flanks? I find if you don't it's usually a slaughter, which is the obvious outcome if your phalanx is flanked by the enemy. I usually only have one line of phalanx and stretch the line, I should have more in reserve since it does make the whole thing more flexible. I am the same with cavalry though, only usually have 1-2 units per stack army, never really afford it. One problem I seem to have is the computer is pretty good at engaging the flanks and avoiding my main phalanx line. For example fighting against a Roman army who have very few if any phalanx units they send the bulk of their army at my flanks which is really annoying since my phalanx units are sitting in the middle doing nothing or very little. I usually win but it just seems the phalanx is a bit wasted.

    Btw Redfox or any one that can help: How would I go about putting the Theban formation back into the formation selection? Quite liked that setup, seemed to work for me.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    @ Messiah I use about the same formation as you really, just less cav and usually have my hoplites directly next to me phalanx on the flanks not set back from them. Any plus side to doing that?
    Yep I tested out the Alexander tactic (against spearmen) who were more prepared than I would have liked but it did work, but like you said I incured quite high casualties.

  6. #6

    Icon14 Re: Battle Tactics

    well the thing is because i have layers of troops all i have to do is rotate and i can easily cover my flanks. my phanlx blocks any flankiong mamouvers. usally by mid battle i get some sort of half noob square like this. and as you said the AI likes attacking the flanks so i usally end up creating new flanks as the battle contiues

    ___pppppp___
    __p__pp__p
    _p________p
    __pppppppp__

  7. #7
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Cal20: Copy the descr_formations.txt from XGM and it should be fine (but the text will still be DTW, so you have to figure out which one is the theban formation).

    What slayer is doing is gather his men in one tight spot, so if a Roman enemy attacks it, it only had one solid place to go. Then the AI will try to flank that main body and will end up getting caught in the phalanxes that were behind the main line.

    I personally never needed to fall on such tactics though. I always had a bunch of cheap infantry as the first line - usually all sorts of skirmishers. Right behind them would be the phalanx, heavy infantry on the flanks and of course heavy cavalry all on one side Alexander style. AI would always engage that light infantry and get caught in the phalanx while you use your mighty cavalry charge.

    Another way to lure the AI into the trap is to deploy a single very thin but wide phalanx in the middle of your hoplites at the flanks. The AI will try to steamroll your flanks but is suddenly faced with a phalanx combined force that is quite deadly. That will keep them busy long enough for you to finish the job.

  8. #8
    messiah's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal20 View Post
    @ Messiah I use about the same formation as you really, just less cav and usually have my hoplites directly next to me phalanx on the flanks not set back from them. Any plus side to doing that?
    Yep I tested out the Alexander tactic (against spearmen) who were more prepared than I would have liked but it did work, but like you said I incured quite high casualties.
    Well, there is one negative on that side conserning my tactic. If the enemy is almost or exactly my size he will attack those hoplites and so they will fail to flank the army. However, the positive is that the enemy

    a) can no longer flank you because the flanking units engage the hoplites;
    b) the enemy can still flank you but has a very long battle line full with gaps.

    By the way the tactic I showed earlier: the number of P;M;H;C weren't as they would be in the real battle. Sure if I'm Macedon I would get 6 cavalry and 4 hoplites, but otherwise that is just to give you the idea how it looks.

    I remember some guy posting at R:TW AARs how he used Alexander's Gaugamela tactic in Vanilla against Romans and he got a Heroic Victory. Search around you'll probably find it.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Formation:
    Center: Phalanxes
    Flanks: Infantry that is left
    Center 2nd line: Peltast etc.
    Flanks 2nd line: Any cavalry.

    Tactic: Just head on and try flanking with infantry+cavalry. If outnumbered I usually take out the command units and the general first.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    RedFox: Thanks for the help, my epic modding skills stretch that far and I have changed it. Also I agree on the use of skirmisher tactic since the AI likes chasing them, but as soon as your skirmishers get behind your lines (and assuming the enemy haven't engaged your line) they will retreat back. I guess they are worth sacrificing in order to get good use out of the phalanx. The other tactic you suggest though I have never heard, so basically have the normal set up with phalanx in the middle but on the flanks with your hoplites/other support troops you have a phalanx interspersed with them? So when they attack your flanks they hit hoplites and a phalanx.

    Messiah: Ah I get you now so they would be your optional positions for cavalry etc, you wouldn't actually have that many in a stack.

    jakobh: It isn't always that simple though trying to take out a general unit when you are out numbered ;P
    Thanks I will have a look for that thread, so it's on twcenter but in the RTW vanilla forums?

  11. #11
    messiah's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal20 View Post
    RedFox: Thanks for the help, my epic modding skills stretch that far and I have changed it. Also I agree on the use of skirmisher tactic since the AI likes chasing them, but as soon as your skirmishers get behind your lines (and assuming the enemy haven't engaged your line) they will retreat back. I guess they are worth sacrificing in order to get good use out of the phalanx. The other tactic you suggest though I have never heard, so basically have the normal set up with phalanx in the middle but on the flanks with your hoplites/other support troops you have a phalanx interspersed with them? So when they attack your flanks they hit hoplites and a phalanx.

    Messiah: Ah I get you now so they would be your optional positions for cavalry etc, you wouldn't actually have that many in a stack.

    jakobh: It isn't always that simple though trying to take out a general unit when you are out numbered ;P
    Thanks I will have a look for that thread, so it's on twcenter but in the RTW vanilla forums?
    Mhm, RTW Vanilla AAR forums.


  12. #12
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Cal20: I actually only had 3-4 phalanxes in the middle and 2+2 on the flanks.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal20 View Post
    jakobh: It isn't always that simple though trying to take out a general unit when you are out numbered ;P
    No, but It's your best chance, but if you do it very slow it doesnt matter. Send your Cavalry Javelineers at them and they will be dumb enough to follow and then you take them with Medium/Heavy cavalry
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Sometimes they are that dumb, other times they just stay away and wait. It's weird the AI will one time throw their general straight on your phalanx or will keep him back safe from the fighting.

  15. #15
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    I discovered that having the AI deploy his general on the far right, he won't probably charge head-on into the phalanx. He'll either stay back, try a flanking move, or end up in the troops who guard the flanks.

    Unfortunately, the AI in RTW isn't very capable. But I've heard nasty rumours that it's better than ETW's AI. No confirmation on that, though I figure the 'next' patch for ETW will make it all the more better (or worse for that matter).

  16. #16

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Actually, the AI in ETW sucks. Took an whole army out with 3 Elite units ... The DTW AI is far more superior.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    The 50th patch they will have released no doubt. RTW AI doesn't seem that bad considering the game is quite old etc. It does some utterly stupid things, but on the whole it is alright worse on the campaign map than the battlefield. I only played the ETW demo but it wasn't that great, AI didn't seem to do much.
    If only RTW had sea battles like ETW..

  18. #18

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    Lol time for Roman tactics.

    Line Infantry, as in Hastati, Princepes(reforms or not for those 2), Socii Cohortes/Hastati,
    or Phalangites(occasionally) are grouped into one large line, and other troop's positions
    are based on this line. (L-I on graph.) 6-12 units of this type.

    Socii Hoplites and Triarii(reformed or not) go on either flank, usually in groups of two. (F-H and F-T
    on graph.) 2-4 units of this type, usually.

    Ranged troops(Velites, accensi, archers, leves) go in front of the huge-ass line. (S on graph.)
    I usually have around 2-6 of these units.

    Cavalry(javelin[Socii Equites] or otherwise[Equites]) go in front of the flank troops, or to the side of them. (C-Lancer or C-Jav on Graph.) 2-4 units of this type.

    General(s) stay behind the big line. (G on graph.)

    Here's a homemade graph to illustrate what I do:
    S S S S S S
    C-Lancer C-Jav F-H F-T L-I L-I L-I L-I L-I L-I L-I L-I L-I L-I F-H F-T C-Lancer C-Jav
    (G) G (G)










    That's what my army usually looks like.

    As for tactics, if the enemy won't come to me, I use my ranged troops to provoke such
    a response.

    If or when they do get close, the skirmishers pull back, and the main line throws pila, if possible.
    Then, the flank troops(Hoplites, Triarii, cavalry) engage the enemy flank troops, and the main
    line engages.

    If or when the flank troops win, they go around the melee, and start charging the enemie's
    behinds, if possible.

    That usually turns into a rout-fest.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    The two factions I play the most are the Seleucids on the WotD start and Pergamum on Imperial campaign and I use different tactics for both of them.
    Seleucids:
    As the seleucids my phalanx line is deployed like so:
    P= pezhetiroi
    D= deuteroi
    A= pantodapai
    H= hoplites
    H P D D D D D D P H
    A A A
    Then on my flanks I have cavalry and my elephants. Once I've routed my enemies cav I charge the enemy phalanxes in the rear with my cav and elephants. Any mercenary smirmishers I hire, I put on my flanks to support my hoplites.
    Pergamum
    Normally as Pergamum I use lots of mercenaries such as galatian swordsmen or hoplites. Then behind these I have a line of Deuteroi. Then on my flanks I have cav.
    G= galatian swordsmen
    H= hoplites
    D= deuteroi
    C= cavalry
    G G H H H H G G
    C D D D D D D C
    With this I hold my enemy with the hoplites, flank them with the galatians and use the deuteroi and cav as a reserve.

  20. #20
    DeathtoEgo's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Battle Tactics

    five years later, better late than never, i guess. I do like you r Pergamum line though
    my successor array, p=pelt,a=arch/sling,s=sword,p=phalanx,c=cav,g=general
    p a a p
    s p p p p p p p p s
    cc g cc
    i guess i drop back the missiles after a couple of volleys, go for the double envelopment and then swing the missiles around the flanks, maybe keep a unit or two of the phalanx as reserve if the enemy has some elites

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