Why remove melee upgrade?

**Radious** · August 10, 2009, 05:46 AM

I was just messing in files because i could not upgrade anywhere my troops with swords and i remembered that swordsmith were suppose to do it and i found its disabled in SS 6.1...its intention or bug?

**Tomato_Sandwich** · August 10, 2009, 05:59 AM

i always wondered why i never get any offers for swordsmiths in SS. im intrigued.

**gaunty14** · August 13, 2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tomato_Sandwich

i always wondered why i never get any offers for swordsmiths in SS. im intrigued.

I got a swordsmiths guild in 6.1 rc/rr while nplaying as France in the late campaign

havn't checked if it adds bonuses yet though

**PerXX** · August 10, 2009, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Radious

I was just messing in files because i could not upgrade anywhere my troops with swords and i remembered that swordsmith were suppose to do it and i found its disabled in SS 6.1...its intention or bug?

It's intentional.
Despite how is appears to work, the upgraded swords actually adds a huge bonus to attack (6 I believe) This would seriously unbalance the game, and as such was changed to the experience bonus it offers now.

Originally Posted by Tomato_Sandwich

i always wondered why i never get any offers for swordsmiths in SS. im intrigued.

It can be rather hard to get for some nations. You need to recruit a whole lot of sword-wielding troops in the castle you want the guild in.
Given the long delay between recruiting swordsmen, the counter drops a bit in the mean time, making it very hard to get the guild. One trick to go about it, could be hiring a swordunit, and then disbanding it, so that you can recruit it again the next turn. This means a shorter time between each recruited swordsman, so your counter grows faster.

**Caesar Clivus** · August 10, 2009, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Radious

I was just messing in files because i could not upgrade anywhere my troops with swords and i remembered that swordsmith were suppose to do it and i found its disabled in SS 6.1...its intention or bug?

It was removed because SS uses the RealCombat system of unit stats. RC lowers attack stats across the board so even a 1 point attack upgrade makes a HUGE difference and causes the entire system to become unbalanced.

**Sab99** · August 10, 2009, 12:39 PM

Although I still see it in enemy castles that I capture.. So it's not completely impossible to get it I guess

**Radious** · August 10, 2009, 12:58 PM

You cant have it, only swordsmith can do it and thats what SS disable.

**Caesar Clivus** · August 10, 2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sab99

Although I still see it in enemy castles that I capture.. So it's not completely impossible to get it I guess

The swordsmith guild wasn't taken out. Just the bonus to melee damage that it gave. Now it gives experience instead.

**LostWraith** · August 10, 2009, 06:19 PM

Is there anyway to train troops in the campaign so they would at least appear to have upgraded weapons on the battle map then? It would be a shame to be able to see upgraded weapon graphics in any campaign battle.

**Caesar Clivus** · August 10, 2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by LostWraith

Is there anyway to train troops in the campaign so they would at least appear to have upgraded weapons on the battle map then? It would be a shame to be able to see upgraded weapon graphics in any campaign battle.

Not that I'm aware of. The actual effects of upgrades etc are hardcoded. So we wouldn't be able to tie the weapon graphics upgrade trigger to something else.

**LostWraith** · August 13, 2009, 01:38 AM

I did a bunch of tests in custom battle and verified with campaign. Apparently, the improved weapon graphics will show up as long as the unit has maxed armor upgrade, which is excellent.

**kasrkin** · August 13, 2009, 04:21 AM

Really? that is excellent, however I've got upgraded Venetian Heavy Infantry (only bronze armour but I think its plate or some such anyway) I don't see their ultra cool fist hammers when they're upgraded, how do you get to see these upgraded weapons if you don't mind me asking?

**Emperor of The Great Unknown** · August 13, 2009, 09:06 AM

the diffrence is so little you usalyl don't notice.

arab cavalry have the most diffrent sword upgrade in terms of weapons grafics.

**LostWraith** · August 13, 2009, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by kasrkin

Really? that is excellent, however I've got upgraded Venetian Heavy Infantry (only bronze armour but I think its plate or some such anyway) I don't see their ultra cool fist hammers when they're upgraded, how do you get to see these upgraded weapons if you don't mind me asking?

I'm pretty sure that upgrade will only be visible once you reach gold armor level. Most units have a gold armor level thankfully, but others like Gendarmes and other heavy cavs will have to settle for low quality swords.

**Tacitursa** · August 13, 2009, 03:34 PM

The guild is easy to get with sword infantry factions. HRE and England being the best choice.

Just put a chivalry general inside your castle and constantly build swordsmen for 20+ turns and you'll receive the guild before long.

If i remember correctly HRE can create 5 types of sword unit and England can make 4. Not sure about middle eastern factions i dont play them much.

**Mojo582** · August 13, 2009, 03:46 PM

Well how would you go about adding back the sword bonus regardless of the imbalance if i may ask? (i do miss the upgraded look on the battle map).

**LostWraith** · August 13, 2009, 06:09 PM

Sword units aren't necessary to getting a guild offer. I was playing France and I got an offer in Jerusalem even though I can't build any sword units there.