The Greeks Stole Maths and Philosophy From the Egyptians???

[EireEmerald]

Did The Greeks Steal Maths and Philosophy From the Egyptians?

i have heard this bouncing around a few times, I was jsut curious.

[Iskender-bey]

Sharing is not the same as stealing.

[MaximiIian]

Sharing is not the same as stealing.

This.
The Greeks did not "steal" ideas from Egypt or other similar nations. They simply dipped into the Near East philosophical melting pot after centuries of cultural exchange.

[King Edward III]

Stealing?

[EireEmerald]

Stealing?

I know, it sounds ridiculous, but some supremecists are trying to claim Greeks stole mathematics off the Egyptians, is there at all in this claim?

[Watchman]

People learn stuff from other people all the time. The Greek alphabet, from which ours is ultimately derived, for example was a Phoenician import.
*shrug*
Cultural exchange is perfectly natural.

[conon394]

The Greek alphabet, from which ours is ultimately derived, for example was a Phoenician import.

With a robust amount of modification however its not like the Phoenician script was adopted cargo cult-like

OP

Maths and Philosophy From the Egyptians?

Steal - how would that work. Did they adopt ideals from cultures who came before certainly. The trick is they did very much new things with that information rather than simply build tombs for monarchs and record the astrological information of of god-kings.

Moreover its not like anyone has frankly ever denied the role of Egypt or Mesopotamia as the birth place of civilization (or if you want to quibble outside of India and China, but I still feel Sumeria has the inside line on first).

In any case while there is a clear debt in general technology, and civilization development I don't see what Philosophy Greece could steel from said cultures - absolute monarchy, capricious rule, theocracy??? Things like equity before the law, fair juries (jury trial frankly), widespread literacy, democracy (in a sedimentary environment) etc are are Greek pure and simple.

[Watchman]

With a robust amount of modification however its not like the Phoenician script was adopted cargo cult-like.

Did I say it was ?

Someone's a little oversensitive methinks.

[conon394]

Someone's a little oversensitive methinks.

I don't think so just looking for fundamental accuracy - the Greeks adopted the Phoenician alphabet but also changed it radically and made it far more flexible. I'm not particularity sensitive about the acts of men and women dead some 2 or more thousands of years. However the kind of logic that supports people A ripped off people B usually depends on the Grey Areas. I just thought it was worth pointing out that if you look look at in one light all the Greeks did was borrow a font set, nothing more.

[Stavroforos]

Steal? No.

Borrow, use, modify? Sure.

[nce_wht_guy]

How does one "steal" knowledge?

[lordoftheT]

How does one "steal" knowledge?

The Greeks could have send a rake to one of the Egyptian's universities.

[SigniferOne]

This whole question uses preposterously broad strokes, strokes which we've supposedly banished in our historically scientific age.

First off, what do we mean by philosophy? Clearly Aristotle had nothing to do with the Egyptians. Nor Plato, nor any of the other major schools.

Now did Pythagoras go to Egypt? Yes. We don't even know what he did there, but Afrocentrists jump on this little occurrence to draw out not that Pythagoras carried philosophy out of Egypt, but furthermore that Africa was therefore the birthplace of European philosophy (I'm not kidding)! Now that is a preposterous statement.

Even if we grant the already tenuous statement that Pythagoras was somehow instrumental to the rest of Greek philosophy, we know nothing of what he discussed in Egypt. And furthermore we know quite a lot about Egypt, a lot about its previous and subsequent history. There was no great philosophy. There were no philosophers there. It was not a philosophic country, even during the flowering ages of the pharaohs.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Philosophy surges in any society where some individuals have some free time and lots of questions, clearly Greeks as other ancient people's had lots of unanswered questions regarding their surroundings and the nature of existence, yeah maybe some philosophical ideas were influenced by Egypt but come on it's not something you steal.

Now Egyptians did some incredible feats that's undeniable but they weren't the creators of everything back then.

[jankren]

Europeans 'learn' knowledge from others not 'steal'. Only if others 'learn' from the Europeans they 'steal'. What a self-centered people.

Just look at the Arab Civilization-related threads. You will find "All the Arabs did was stealing from the Greeks" comments all over the place.

[I Am Herenow]

I would argue that, with respect to mathematics, certainly, the Greeks' contributions to the subject were qualitatively different to the Egyptians' in that they developed proofs and abstractions instead of simply using mathematics for particular instances of something. In a recent BBC documentary on the history of mathematics, the Egyptian example of dividing nine loaves of bread between ten people is given. It is all well and good to follow their instructions for that one particular instance, but what if one needed to divide nine loaves between eleven, ten loaves between thirteen and so on? Similarly, the Egyptians had discovered the right-angled properties of the three-four-five triangle, but it was the Greek civilisation that was to prove that the square of a hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle was equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides.

Similarly, during the Hellenistic era Euclid published his Elements which, again, not only stated but proved certain theorems. It is for the above reasons that I would argue that the Greeks' contribution to mathematics was greater than the ancient Egyptians', far from their "stealing" their predecessors' achievements.

I Am Herenow

[Charontas]

I would argue that, with respect to mathematics, certainly, the Greeks' contributions to the subject were qualitatively different to the Egyptians' in that they developed proofs and abstractions instead of simply using mathematics for particular instances of something. ...

This is exactly the major difference between the two civilizations. The Egyptians where very good at using math (especially geometry) but the Greeks where the first (so far I know) that sought after why rule X or Y held true.

[jankren]

I would argue that, with respect to mathematics, certainly, the Greeks' contributions to the subject were qualitatively different to the Egyptians' in that they developed proofs and abstractions instead of simply using mathematics for particular instances of something. In a recent BBC documentary on the history of mathematics, the Egyptian example of dividing nine loaves of bread between ten people is given. It is all well and good to follow their instructions for that one particular instance, but what if one needed to divide nine loaves between eleven, ten loaves between thirteen and so on? Similarly, the Egyptians had discovered the right-angled properties of the three-four-five triangle, but it was the Greek civilisation that was to prove that the square of a hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle was equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides.

Similarly, during the Hellenistic era Euclid published his Elements which, again, not only stated but proved certain theorems. It is for the above reasons that I would argue that the Greeks' contribution to mathematics was greater than the ancient Egyptians', far from their "stealing" their predecessors' achievements.

I Am Herenow

Yeah just like the Japanese contribute more to the world with their highly efficient cars than Henry Ford if you get my point.

nah, just by Sig.

Lol, maybe you are right.

Ahh come on you can not really believe this ... It's a little bit hard to steal culture don't you think? it's more about evolution of ideas and exchange of knowledge, the Egyptians and Greeks were some bright fellows for the most part the eastern Mediterranean basin was a melting pot of culture, knowledge and ideas...when Arabs arrived to Syria/Judea/Egypt/Palestine they were clearly swarmed by these long existing knowledge/philosophies, of course they brought their ingredients to the mix, as much as Romans, Persians, Hellenes etc had done centuries before.
So cultures do not steal form one another the influence each other.

You obviously misunderstood.

Im on the same thinking as you.

[I Am Herenow]

Yeah just like the Japanese contribute more to the world with their highly efficient cars than Henry Ford if you get my point.

I'm afraid I don't ... ? (NB I don't know much about cars.)

I Am Herenow

[wilpuri]

Please stop starting these ridiculous threads now.