Roma Surrectum II: Economic System

[Tigrul]

Hmm... sounds great. I've always enjoyed the non-war part of TW games somewhat more than the war part, so I'll really enjoy a more complex economics system. Just get that game out already!

[♔Icebear77♔]

wow iam looking forward to have the control of my eco...

[Oberbefehlshaber]

Debt piles onto debt, and pretty soon you have an Empire with no profits, no money, and a hugely unhappy populace.

Haha, when I read this it reminds me of America (sorry off topic). Good job, I know this will be by far the best Rome mod there ever was and ever will be, good luck RS team. I'm glad that the AI will be harder to play against not just because of huge fund bonuses.

[dvk901]

I was thinking that as I was typing it.

[tone]

Add to that that a lot of major factions will have individually tweaked economies and unit stats because of the way the campaigns are set up as "mod folders" within the main campaign.

[Visarion]

It is a very good ideea. In vanilla and all mods I've played the biggest problem of gameplay was the fact that after a certain number of turns the other factions suffered bankrupcy. Last time I played a mod I incresed the starting treasury of all the factions to avoid bancrupcy in the very beginning of the game. The factions that had a large number of settlement had a good economy so I gave them less starting treasury to balance the game. I reccomend that you give all the agents an ability similar to the units disband ability. You could call it retire. When I play I like to use spies to know what happens around me but after I discover all the map and have spies in strategic positions and watch towers the large number of agents is a problem because it affects my economy. It would be a good ideea for a reduced upkeep... I like your ideeas! Good wark so far... and please give a decent starting treasury!

[Rt. Hon. Gentleman]

So, have I understood this right: Making money by using natural resources, buildings, etc etc, is good in the long term, but is a slow way to make money and won't give you enough to build a full-stack army if your homeland is attacked. So, the player would then jack up tax rates to get a short-term cash injection. However, the act of doing this makes, in real terms, the populace of your country poorer and poorer, which leads to a lack of spending from them thus screwing up your building/resources long term economy and causing unrest from the vox pops at the same time? So, the player must strike a balance between "real" economics and quick-buck "taxes" that give you money but screw the economy?

If that is right, then that is bloody brilliant. Did I get the point? Have I missed anything?

[gladius99]

Wow! the new economic system sounds very cool and realistic as well It was indeed a bit to easy to make a lot of money in RS 1.5. This is just another reason why I can't wait to play RS2!

[dvk901]

So, have I understood this right: Making money by using natural resources, buildings, etc etc, is good in the long term, but is a slow way to make money and won't give you enough to build a full-stack army if your homeland is attacked. So, the player would then jack up tax rates to get a short-term cash injection. However, the act of doing this makes, in real terms, the populace of your country poorer and poorer, which leads to a lack of spending from them thus screwing up your building/resources long term economy and causing unrest from the vox pops at the same time? So, the player must strike a balance between "real" economics and quick-buck "taxes" that give you money but screw the economy?

If that is right, then that is bloody brilliant. Did I get the point? Have I missed anything?

That is exactly what I am trying to do.....provide an 'adequate' income that allows you to 'exist'. By that I mean, defend your property, build up your own cities, and advance as a nation in your own areas. But as soon as you start getting aggressive and expanding you first, end up at war with somebody (if you aren't already, like Rome and Carthage, the Ptolemaics and Seleucid). Second, this incurrs their wrath, of course, and causes you to be attacked in turn by an AI that has many economic and happiness advantages in it's own regions. Third, (my experience so far is that) battles are no cakewalk as they tended to be in RS1.5 at times. Even if you win, you are hurt. So you start having to spend a lot to make a lot (buildings), but it isn't necessarily enough....so you raise taxes to get more. This drives your economy into the red, and apparently RTW actually DOES calculate that xxx amount of taxes on a diminishing amount of incoming profit really does mean that more taxes on less just = LESS. Fancy that.

Anyway, it needs to tested out more, but that is the intended goal. And, it will have far more impact in the 'modfoldered' campaigns for various factions where things can be set up a lot different for those factions.

[Rt. Hon. Gentleman]

That is exactly what I am trying to do.....provide an 'adequate' income that allows you to 'exist'. By that I mean, defend your property, build up your own cities, and advance as a nation in your own areas. But as soon as you start getting aggressive and expanding you first, end up at war with somebody (if you aren't already, like Rome and Carthage, the Ptolemaics and Seleucid). Second, this incurrs their wrath, of course, and causes you to be attacked in turn by an AI that has many economic and happiness advantages in it's own regions. Third, (my experience so far is that) battles are no cakewalk as they tended to be in RS1.5 at times. Even if you win, you are hurt. So you start having to spend a lot to make a lot (buildings), but it isn't necessarily enough....so you raise taxes to get more. This drives your economy into the red, and apparently RTW actually DOES calculate that xxx amount of taxes on a diminishing amount of incoming profit really does mean that more taxes on less just = LESS. Fancy that.

Anyway, it needs to tested out more, but that is the intended goal. And, it will have far more impact in the 'modfoldered' campaigns for various factions where things can be set up a lot different for those factions.

excellent!

[DaddyPro]

So you start having to spend a lot to make a lot (buildings), but it isn't necessarily enough....so you raise taxes to get more.

whats stopping me from having maxed out taxes from the start? i always have maxed out taxes in my campaigns.

[Ketchup]

whats stopping me from having maxed out taxes from the start? i always have maxed out taxes in my campaigns.

There's nothing "stopping"you, but to do so would be, ah, inadvisable...

Read dvk's post and you'll see that taxing your citizens (and building the special "tax" buildings) generates short-term income. That is to say that you won't be able to sustain such economic growth through taxes alone. You will need to focus more on building up your provinces' infrastructure (roads/mines and such) and encouraging trade, if you want to have a stable, long-term economy.

[DaddyPro]

i keep high taxes only to reduce population growth rate, so what gonna happen if i keep high taxes in RS2? ill start getting less income from taxes?

[MarcusTullius]

Short term strategy such as high taxes can be used with the economic system but it definitely is more beneficial and indeed necessary to look towards a more long term method of sustaining finance

[DaddyPro]

For me the lower the taxes is the faster population grow and harder to keep public order.

[dvk901]

One of the reasons for doing it this way is because your cities ultimately will hover around a 90-100% happiness....that's the plan. Happiness and law bonuses are not substancial...there are many OF them, but they are very small bonuses. So you need to build a lot to keep cities happy...and to do that you need money....and if you tax them a lot they will be un-HAPPIER...and you will need to build even more!! So it will develope into a vicious circle if you aren't nice to your people. As I said, this is all set up based upon 'High' taxes. If you want to tax them more...go for it. They'll 'love' you.

[Mulattothrasher]

Maybe Dvk should run for president and implement his RS2 plan into American politics!

[ray243]

Maybe Dvk should run for president and implement his RS2 plan into American politics!

Nah, the senate would just ripped the RS2 bill into pieces by cutting out features left and right in order to ensure everyone votes in favour of the bill.


By the time they are done, RS 2 would look exactly like what we see in rome total war vanilla.

[chaplain118]

But if it works anyway like vanilla, we'd be rolling in cash.

Dvk for president 2012

[dvk901]

I just figured using the US Government is a perfect way to set up an economy. Tax the pi$$ out of everyone, wreck the economy, and then wonder why no one's paying all the taxes.
It's the quintessential way to show how NOT to run a country, and how TO wreck your economy in one package. The object being that taxing 50% of little, is still very little. 70% of nothing is still nothing....at least that's the math I was taught in school. Funny thing is we had a Revolution over taxes, and now we tax ourselves more than the British ever did.