Congressman: we know better than the military

[danzig]

Ok not a direct quote but hilarious article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124969431303416161.html Military requested funding for one gulfstream jet to accommodate various air travel of congressmen, military officials etc. Please remember congress attacked Ford, GM and other execs for taking private planes to the hearings in Washington. One jet, its all the military said they needed and all they want so what does congress decide? They need 4 with a quote from Rep Young (yes he is a republican not a democrat, I dont pull sides when it comes to idiocy) suggesting the military isnt a fountain of knowledge and that sometimes they dont know what is best. Really? So a military branch that has tons of people to look after what they need to meet their goals both militarily and otherwise isnt in the best situation to judge well...what hardware they need? Now the military will end up having to take the money from other programs to pay for the two additional jets that it doesnt want, doesnt need. You'll also notice that congress has provided funding for a second engine for F35 despite the fact the air force says they dont need. Right there is 700+ million the military doesnt want to spend on what congress is telling it to, to buy something it doesnt need/want. Notice even Obama requested only 200 million for 4 passenger jets and congress decided they needed 8. All money to send officals all over the world, this isnt even President we are talking about, planes for his travel this is for various congressmen, senators etc. Hello, no one ever heard of commerical airlines in Washington like the rest of the world uses.

[JP226]

I'm a big advocate of taking these s into a field and... well you get the picture. The jets in and of themselves don't bother me, it's this rulling class BS that frowns down on Car companies flying their jets to washington and them crying about it and then pulling this . Why aren't they driving a hybrid to show how much they care?

[danzig]

Yeah its amazing they can blast GM, Ford, Chrysler for doing it while they are in debt (though Ford hasnt taken a cent from government so what it does is its own business) and out goverment is laying out 700+million to do the very same thing. Do what I say not what I do, Washington at its finest.

[Captain Jin]

You don't even want to know the incredible depths of money spent when VIPs (I use the term loosely) travel abroad. It's quite shocking, and pretty damn ridiculous.

[JP226]

I read Richard Marcinko's biography and him talking about his time in nam, setting up the finest prostitutes in Siagon for visiting memebrs of Congress. Granted that was damn near 40 years ago in a dangerous political environment with a politician being whacked every few months, but still. The arrogance is there, maybe it's even worse now.

[danzig]

Perhaps one of our euro friends can fill us in but dont EU officials and your local government officials use commercial airtravel? I mean there isnt a fleet of airbuses ready to ferry around EU officials right? 99% sure they use commercial, hell Brits dont even have an private plane for their PM if Im not mistaken but yet Rep Joe Blow from Little Town, Somewhere can get on a private plane on tax payers dime.

[Manco]

Perhaps one of our euro friends can fill us in but dont EU officials and your local government officials use commercial airtravel? I mean there isnt a fleet of airbuses ready to ferry around EU officials right? 99% sure they use commercial, hell Brits dont even have an private plane for their PM if Im not mistaken but yet Rep Joe Blow from Little Town, Somewhere can get on a private plane on tax payers dime.

I think in most countries only the PM/President, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Defence gets to use a private military plane. But even then those are real military planes with no luxury, not some super deluxe airliner.

[mrmouth]

Some of the stories surrounding people visiting Iraq from all levels of government, are maddening to the point you genuinely do wish these people bodily harm. You are talking requests from congressmen that put our people in absurdly dangerous situations to the point they are comical, just so they could drive around and look at .

And officers were pushed out after voicing their concerns.

It became the popular thing to do, to the point that low level aides were hopping on planes to have it on their resume.

[JP226]

Congress makes you realize how great a person Washington was. They were pulling the same back in his day and when damn near the entire military establishment of the US in the day wanted to march on COngress, Washington held them back.

[Каие]

''Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.'' - Mark Twain

[JP226]

Gotta love Twain. Alas though, it is the nature of Government and I would never trust them, even with a potato gun. Almost to the point that they are a necessary evil. Then again I'm an American and naturally pessimistic to their ability.

[Sphere]

If you really want to be infuriated read about the new presidential helicopter program. The president doesn't want it, the military doesn't want it, it's hundreds of millions over budget and years past schedule and still the congress includes it in the DoD budget because its a "bring home the bacon project". I swear the DoD is in many ways the largest welfare program in the US.

[Farnan]

If you really want to be infuriated read about the new presidential helicopter program. The president doesn't want it, the military doesn't want it, it's hundreds of millions over budget and years past schedule and still the congress includes it in the DoD budget because its a "bring home the bacon project". I swear the DoD is in many ways the largest welfare program in the US.

No the DOD is the location of Congressional Pork...

If they cut the pork, and had military leadership draft the budget you'll probably see a cut in the budget, but Congress wants to add so many pork barrel projects.

[Sidmen]

Sorta reminds me of that small European nation a few years ago (forgive me, I don't recall its name, it was one of the tiny ones, like the Netherlands/Denmark/ect..). Their military asked for some attack helicopters to provide close ground support. Their government, in its infinite wisdom, bought them cruise missiles.....

Seriously, I wish the military was just given a budget and a goal; and let to accomplish those goals with the money alloted. How many times has a weapon/vehicle been up for replacement, only to be denied in the testing phase by congress for whatever reason?

[Swordthrower]

I was told by a very wise man, in his 80's, that there were no politicians in this country (U.S.) before the Cold War. There was never anything that gave Americans reason to fear their personal safety on a broad scale before the Cold War. Even during the dark days at the onset of American participation in WWII the impracticality of being invaded by the Axis was enough to keep anything but romanticized public relations pieces from worrying American households.

But nuclear war? That notion on the other hand was fearful enough, when catalysed by blooming media capabilities, to make households more malleable and susceptible to politics. Once it became apparent that popularity was more important than ideology or truth, a position in life that could cater to this need for personal reassurances was created, and has been popular ever since. The people that fufill this position are known as politicians.

[Watchman]

I was told by a very wise man, in his 80's, that there were no politicians in this country (U.S.) before the Cold War. There was never anything that gave Americans reason to fear their personal safety on a broad scale before the Cold War. Even during the dark days at the onset of American participation in WWII the impracticality of being invaded by the Axis was enough to keep anything but romanticized public relations pieces from worrying American households.

But nuclear war? That notion on the other hand was fearful enough, when catalysed by blooming media capabilities, to make households more malleable and susceptible to politics. Once it became apparent that popularity was more important than ideology or truth, a position in life that could cater to this need for personal reassurances was created, and has been popular ever since. The people that fufill this position are known as politicians.

Cool story bro.

Sound spretty dubious though; it's not like Americans weren't divided into different interest groups, each with its own priorities and values, long before that.

[Admiral Piett]

No doubt Congressmen are retarded, but the military certainly doesn't need the budget it currently has. Not by a longshot.

[Farnan]

No doubt Congressmen are retarded, but the military certainly doesn't need the budget it currently has. Not by a longshot.

Ok, tell me where to cut exactly, how much of it to cut and give justification for that cut.

Simply saying the budget is to high doesn't mean anything.

[Admiral Piett]

Ok, tell me where to cut exactly, how much of it to cut and give justification for that cut.

Simply saying the budget is to high doesn't mean anything.

I'm no expert on defense spending... yet. But you don't think that 45% of the federal budget going towards the military is a little ridiculous? There are two constant drains on federal revenue that push us further into deficit. Social security/medicare (that doesn't cover anyone anyway), and defense.

I suggest watching the film The Pentagon Wars.

[Farnan]

I'm no expert on defense spending... yet. But you don't think that 45% of the federal budget going towards the military is a little ridiculous?

It depends on how much is spent where. Personnel costs are pretty unflexable, other costs do need an auditor going through to make sure the military isn't being cheated (which it is) and then remove Congressional Pork. Besides regular military stuff, don't forget the Army Corps of Engineers (responsible for National Infrastructure) is part of the military budget. And its 45% of discretionary spending, not 45% of the budget.

344.7 Billion is in maintenance, construction, housing, operations and personnel cost so that is inflexible. 189.1 is in procurement, R&D and other, this is more flexible but you got to be careful in cutting. R&D cost also goes mostly to civilian university and provides a good deal of their research funding. 130 is in the current military operations.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/FY10...%20Request.pdf

Remember also, the DOD is the largest employer in the country, personnel costs are very high.