Are the left-wing apologists for Islamic totalitarianism?

[Gauvin]

I was formally both left-wing and a Muslim. I was left-wing while I was Muslim, and also after I left the religion, but, I noticed that when I told people about the attitude toward apostates, and gays, and Jews by the Muslim community it is the left-wing that is generally mocking, or apathetic. The European left shows great contempt for American conservatism, and religiosity, but yawn when Van Gogh was killed for making a film criticising religion and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is threatened with death for her contribution and apostasy, or that Fortuyn was killed by a man defending Muslims against "right-wing scapegoating", or when the Mayor of Paris is stabbed by a self-proclaimed devout Muslim, for being gay. They screamed about fearmongering , and islamophobia when Channel 4 went undercover in mosques to show the intolerance (homophobia, Judeophobia, supremacism, all of which the Left used to oppose but now defend in the name of multiculturalism, showing that they only think it's bad if white people do it) being preached there.

Moreover, I saw that the left was more itnerested in seeing America lose in Iraq, than the Iraqi people win, that is why they were quick to label the elected government a "puppet government", and the insurgents are a legitimate "anti-occupation" resistance, and to downplay any positive development, since most of their beliefs are motivated by anti-americanism and not freedom or liberalism.

I was disillusioned with the Left, and no longer consider myself a leftist, and I certainly no longer consider leftists "liberals", since they and not the right, are the greatest apologizers for totalitarianism, specifically Islamic totalitarianism.



I was surprised to find a video by Pat Condell that summarized my dillusionment with the left.

What do you think of the opinions expressed in the video?

[Treize]

I am a bit socialist in welfare and economics, but I am not a fan of religious people.

The right are usually pro USA and Israel laissez faire liberals who want to dissolve the wellfarestate.

[Heinz Guderian]

Were you actually suprised to find a pat condell video that agreed with your "neo-cons please accept me i am like you now" views?

Pat seems like an angry man.

[Barry Goldwater]

Now I'm being honest when I say I don't know much about the Left outside America, but in here most of them are sane - most of the ones I've actually met, anyway. They're mostly blue-collar folks and members of trade unions. While I respectfully disagree with them I don't have a hard time engaging them in friendly debates that for the most part, go well.

Now the 'New Left' in the States, on the other hand, are (mostly) a pack of hypocritical, self-righteous and frighteningly naive idiots - like the douchebags who buy Che Guevara t-shirts, not knowing that they just played into one of history's many great ironies. I find debating with them about as enjoyable as bashing your head against a brick wall, and when they start throwing phrases like 'Man is the only species that kills its own' I send them videos of ants ripping each other apart out of boredom, frustration and for the lulz (no, they do not bother replying).

Now don't get me wrong, there are saner 'New Leftists' I can bear and have a proper debate with, but the bulk of them are stuck-up hypocritical college kids and douches.

[Homeros]

Now the 'New Left' in the States, on the other hand, are (mostly) a pack of hypocritical, self-righteous and frighteningly naive idiots - like the douchebags who buy Che Guevara t-shirts, not knowing that they just played into one of history's many great ironies. I find debating with them about as enjoyable as bashing your head against a brick wall, and when they start throwing phrases like 'Man is the only species that kills its own' I send them videos of ants ripping each other apart out of boredom, frustration and for the lulz (no, they do not bother replying).

Now don't get me wrong, there are saner 'New Leftists' I can bear and have a proper debate with, but the bulk of them are stuck-up hypocritical college kids and douches.

There's a difference between Lefties and Pacifists, although its kinda strange they seem to wear a Che Guevara t-shirt.

I've to admit that I never met a right-wing extremist proclaiming pacifism.

[mongrel]

I was formally both left-wing and a Muslim. I was left-wing while I was Muslim, and also after I left the religion, but, I noticed that when I told people about the attitude toward apostates, and gays, and Jews by the Muslim community it is the left-wing that is generally mocking, or apathetic. The European left shows great contempt for American conservatism, and religiosity, but yawn when Van Gogh was killed for making a film criticising religion and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is threatened with death for her contribution and apostasy, or that Fortuyn was killed by a man defending Muslims against "right-wing scapegoating", or when the Mayor of Paris is stabbed by a self-proclaimed devout Muslim, for being gay. They screamed about fearmongering , and islamophobia when Channel 4 went undercover in mosques to show the intolerance (homophobia, Judeophobia, supremacism, all of which the Left used to oppose but now defend in the name of multiculturalism, showing that they only think it's bad if white people do it) being preached there.

Moreover, I saw that the left was more itnerested in seeing America lose in Iraq, than the Iraqi people win, that is why they were quick to label the elected government a "puppet government", and the insurgents are a legitimate "anti-occupation" resistance, and to downplay any positive development, since most of their beliefs are motivated by anti-americanism and not freedom or liberalism.

I was disillusioned with the Left, and no longer consider myself a leftist, and I certainly no longer consider leftists "liberals", since they and not the right, are the greatest apologizers for totalitarianism, specifically Islamic totalitarianism.



I was surprised to find a video by Pat Condell that summarized my dillusionment with the left.

What do you think of the opinions expressed in the video?

You must have been part of a swap deal with Glen Jenvey.

Pat seems like an angry man.

He's a wub, that's all. Joined on the Eurabia bandwagon for youtube hits. What a whore.

[Dr. Croccer]

The main problem with assessing that is that the right, as usual, is overly hyperbolic. The majority of lefties have no problem with Islam and often defend it against right wing accusations, as they usually do with minorities of whom the right suspects that they have some plan to rule the world. Ergo, the right would obviously demonize that. Lefties who are critical of the idea of ''Eurabia'' or who refuse to pass legislations discriminative of Islam are, of course, branded as ''coward PC traitors that apologize the impending tidal wave of Islamofascism'' or something along those lines. It isn't too different of the accusations of ''Judeao-Bolshevism'' and some evil secret plot of the Left and Jews to dominate the world a 100 years ago.

Moreover the definition of the ''left''. You mention the ''American left'', whilst American Socialists and Communists are virtually non-existant, I'm asuming you're refering to the Democrats, who are Liberals and and Centrists. The definition of ''left'' amongst the right seems to mainly ''people who don't share our ideas''. By that logic, and let's assume that the right is anti-Islamic, then, obviously, the ''left'' is pro-Islam which, as shown above, the Right can easily twist into ''apologism of Islamism''. But that's an invented ''left'', a lie used to justify lies about lies. The fact is though, that as great deal of those so-called ''apologists'' are rightists themselves, Conservatives and Liberals that don't believe in the nonsense their more fanatic kin preach, indeed, perhaps even the majority.

[Manco]

I was formally both left-wing and a Muslim. I was left-wing while I was Muslim, and also after I left the religion, but, I noticed that when I told people about the attitude toward apostates, and gays, and Jews by the Muslim community it is the left-wing that is generally mocking, or apathetic. The European left shows great contempt for American conservatism, and religiosity, but yawn when Van Gogh was killed for making a film criticising religion and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is threatened with death for her contribution and apostasy, or that Fortuyn was killed by a man defending Muslims against "right-wing scapegoating", or when the Mayor of Paris is stabbed by a self-proclaimed devout Muslim, for being gay. They screamed about fearmongering , and islamophobia when Channel 4 went undercover in mosques to show the intolerance (homophobia, Judeophobia, supremacism, all of which the Left used to oppose but now defend in the name of multiculturalism, showing that they only think it's bad if white people do it) being preached there.

Moreover, I saw that the left was more itnerested in seeing America lose in Iraq, than the Iraqi people win, that is why they were quick to label the elected government a "puppet government", and the insurgents are a legitimate "anti-occupation" resistance, and to downplay any positive development, since most of their beliefs are motivated by anti-americanism and not freedom or liberalism.

I was disillusioned with the Left, and no longer consider myself a leftist, and I certainly no longer consider leftists "liberals", since they and not the right, are the greatest apologizers for totalitarianism, specifically Islamic totalitarianism.



I was surprised to find a video by Pat Condell that summarized my dillusionment with the left.

What do you think of the opinions expressed in the video?

So, not taking the easy road and blaming it all on Islam somehow equals being a Islamist totalitarian, despite always quite verbally denouncing their acts of violence and totalitarianism?

[Gauvin]

despite always quite verbally denouncing their acts of violence and totalitarianism?

That's what I'm saying doesn't happen, not the strawman you erected before that.

[Heinz Guderian]

thread not turning out the way it was supposed to

[mongrel]

Like the EU immigration thread. I guess that with the neo-cons out of the picture in the US, this kind of stuff looks dated and silly now. If Glen Jenvey has given up on the bollocks he wrote (although I am concerned about the present company he keeps) it is practically over.

[Erik]

The left isn't apologizing for Islamic totalitarianism, we are defending moderate and peaceful Muslims from the age-old right-wing policy of scapegoating minorities.

[Каие]

Gauvin, since when were the ''LEFT'' and ''RIGHT'' singular, monolithic entities? I truly laugh when supposed Right wingers, like yourself, keep collectively grouping masses and masses of ideas and people into singular titles and neat groups since the central, CENTRAL, tenet of Right wing politics is the INDIVIDUAL and INDIVIDUALITY. But I guess when it suits you... it's OK to be un-right wing, if it means grouping all your enemies, the Commies, Liberals, Muslims etc. into one group, known as the LEFT.

In the recent past, members of the Right have shown equal contempt as radical Muslims for gays, freedom of speech, civil liberties and Democracy. Pinochet and Franco come to mind. The Right wing frequently decries Left win ideologues and tyrants, but right wing ones get a pass. They, rightly, decry Left wing totalitarianism but are busy advocating their own version of totalitarianism. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Right wing, behaves exactly, EXACTLY, the same as the Left wing... hypocrisy, prejudice, bigotry, the only thing that changes is the target of the former.


PS. Pat Condell is not the right example nor perfect one for this topic. He's a demagogue and bandwagon hopper.


PPS. What's with the generalisation of the opposition to the Iraq war? Everyone opposed it for different reasons, the most prominent actually being disbelief in the official line, then anger at the exposing of the inherent dishonesty. I for one opposed it for political reasons, a) I'm a non-interventionist tory, b) Saddam kept the Iranians, Saudis and Israelis in check whereas now Iran and Israel are openly threatening each other with annihilation. Iran even wields ridiculously disproportionate influence over the Iraqi government too. The Americans won;t be there forever. But yes, do keep playing the ''morality'' card, as if you supported this war because of it's morals. Replacing one totalitarian ruler, with lots and lots of little mid-level RELIGIOUS totalitarian rulers.

[Caelius]

To answer the OP: Of course some section in the far-left of the political spectrum are apologist towards Islamic fanaticism.

Props for an interesting thread so far Gauvin, keep up the rhetorical trashing.

[Jexiel]

To answer the OP: Of course some section in the far-left of the political spectrum are apologist towards Islamic fanaticism.

Props for an interesting thread so far Gauvin, keep up the rhetorical trashing.

Just like certain elements of the "right-wing" are apologists for Saudi Arabia and its brand of Islamism. So it seems the "left" and the "right" have something in common: they both support some form of totalitarianism.

[Last Roman]

Gauvin, since when were the ''LEFT'' and ''RIGHT'' singular, monolithic entities?

well, for the sake of argument, it makes it easier. So I get what he's trying to do.


that said, the "left" is still a pretty wide ranging concept, from Dems in America to hardcore Communists and anarchists in Europe.

I myself would not exactly endorse Islamic totalitarianism.

[Swordthrower]

Down with extremists! They need to be wiped out from the face of the universe and their existance erased from all anals of history.

All right well on second thought extremists are okay, as long as they know what they stand for, and are not waiting for some other group of people to be for something in order for they themselves to know what they are going to be against.

[Barry Goldwater]

PPS. What's with the generalisation of the opposition to the Iraq war? Everyone opposed it for different reasons, the most prominent actually being disbelief in the official line, then anger at the exposing of the inherent dishonesty. I for one opposed it for political reasons, a) I'm a non-interventionist tory, b) Saddam kept the Iranians, Saudis and Israelis in check whereas now Iran and Israel are openly threatening each other with annihilation. Iran even wields ridiculously disproportionate influence over the Iraqi government too. The Americans won;t be there forever. But yes, do keep playing the ''morality'' card, as if you supported this war because of it's morals. Replacing one totalitarian ruler, with lots and lots of little mid-level RELIGIOUS totalitarian rulers.

Was this directed at me?

[Каие]

Nope, Gauvin.

[Gauvin]

The left isn't apologizing for Islamic totalitarianism, we are defending moderate and peaceful Muslims from the age-old right-wing policy of scapegoating minorities.

Scapegoating minorities for what? Killing and attacking politicians and artists? Muslims have done so, in the name of Islam. A scapegoat is assigning blame for things one didn't do, isn't it? So what exactly are people blaming Muslims for that they haven't done? Have they blown up buses in Europe, or not? Have they killed a filmmaker in Europe or not? Have they taught prejudice against gays, women, Jews, and non-Muslims, or not? No one is asking for innocent Muslims to be charged for what other Muslims have done. But, I think the fact that these things happen is a sign of a problem within the community, and reflects a difference in values.

If the right-wing is the problem, where are these assassinations of Muslim politicians by these scary supporters of Geert Wilders? I don't think you can clamour on about the past, things have changed, this was shown by the example of an animal rights acitivist doing the first political assassination in the Netherlands in hundreds of years, precisely because he claimed the gay politician Pim Fortuyn was scapegoating Muslims. This hysteria over scapegoating trumps any actual scaegoating being done. This is why in the name islamophobia, we've seen freedom of speech curtailed at the U.N., and a Dutch politician killed.

George W. Bush, that famous neo-con, announced to the world that "Islam is peace" and that the U.S. was fighting people perverting the good teachings of Islam, and that America was home to many Muslims who practiced their religion in peace. And, yet he's the target of the Left's ire?

Muslim terrorists are not from one particular country, age group, or social status, the only thing that ties Islamic terrorists is Islam, unfortunately, this is a fact concluded by Britain's MI-5.

Gauvin, since when were the ''LEFT'' and ''RIGHT'' singular, monolithic entities? I truly laugh when supposed Right wingers, like yourself, keep collectively grouping masses and masses of ideas and people into singular titles and neat groups since the central, CENTRAL, tenet of Right wing politics is the INDIVIDUAL and INDIVIDUALITY. But I guess when it suits you... it's OK to be un-right wing, if it means grouping all your enemies, the Commies, Liberals, Muslims etc. into one group, known as the LEFT.

I suppose to you sociology is just the science of stereotyping.

I'm speaking of a trend I've noticed within the left, I've noticed it to be widespread. Since the left is ultimately about uniformity, I think it's ironic that they are the biggest proponents of multiculturalism (not pluralism), but appropriate that they have some common ground. Apparently you don't believe that certain individuals can share the same ideas as others, especially when they organize themselves into parties and describe themselves as "left-wing", and that saying so is contradictory to my belief in individuality. Apparently, you believe silly things.