Mexico looses drug war?

[BlackPirate]

After a brief lull in the begining of the year, drug relating killings have reached new highs.Only July saw 900 drug related murders commited in Mexico.Summary executions, beheadings, torture are common incidents now in many regions of North, central and south Mexico.Police officers and federal agents are killed on daily basis.In an incident that shows the brutality of drug cartels, Hitmen killed a police officer and then burned his wife and four children http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...RYpOgD99OHLM80.

Battles like this http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/am...les/index.html , that happened yesterday in central Mexico are common.Many of these murders(but certainly not all) are commited by Los zetas, a criminal mercenary army, ex-members of the Mexican army trained for counter -insurgency and anti-drug operations.Those people were trained by US, French and Israeli experts during the 90s.Today they have some of the best guns, armor etc that you can find in market, bought in USA.

Can Mexico win this war?

[Thanatos]

Of course not, not with the way things are nowadays. Mexico can't even take care of its own people, how can it win a war against ex-military drug smugglers?

[DekuTrash]

Can't see any good coming out of this.....

I think this will get people wanting more border control.
If it begins to spill over to the US (which it has to an extent) I don't really know what'll happen.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

IMO the Mexicans should work with the American military and wipe these guys out. A sort of Iraqi or Afgan-style occupation, only easier since we don't have to invade the country. I really don't see any other alternative atm.

[Enemy of the State]

Of course they're loosing the war. You can't win a war on drugs. The sooner the US and Mexico both realize it and legalize drugs, the sooner we can end the violence.

[Broken Lance]

Of course they're loosing the war. You can't win a war on drugs. The sooner the US and Mexico both realize it and legalize drugs, the sooner we can end the violence.

do you seriously think making them legal would change anything?

[Admiral Piett]

do you seriously think making them legal would change anything?

Ah, you're new, so I guess I can give you some lee-way. Other wise I would have said go back and read the dozens of topics and see the discussion on how lifting prohibition would utterly eradicate the market from cartel control and place it in the control of pharmaceutical companies. No one will buy from the dealers or deal with the dangerous people if they can get it from a more safe source.

Drug addicts belong in rehab, not in prison. In prison, the price just goes up.

[Barry Goldwater]

do you seriously think making them legal would change anything?

Actually yes, yes I do. As I have said so many times on these forums, legalize the softer drugs like marijuana, tax them (reasonably) and everybody wins - the people can get the drugs safely while the government makes a quick buck.

Oh wait, the drug lords lose, but them.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Actually yes, yes I do. As I have said so many times on these forums, legalize the softer drugs like marijuana, tax them (reasonably) and everybody wins - the people can get the drugs safely while the government makes a quick buck.

Oh wait, the drug lords lose, but them.

Drugs like marijuana are "gateway drugs" (from the POV of the police) and a "complementary good" (from the POV of economists), which means that when most people get mary jane, they want harder drugs. So the druglords will still have customers and the problem will be no better-maybe worse, since more people potentially want drugs. You would have to legalize all the main drugs that these gangs sell to stop their economic power, which would be a bad idea in my opinion.

[Enemy of the State]

do you seriously think making them legal would change anything?

Of course. Do you think those cartels can function without customers?

Actually yes, yes I do. As I have said so many times on these forums, legalize the softer drugs like marijuana, tax them (reasonably) and everybody wins - the people can get the drugs safely while the government makes a quick buck.

I'm afraid that wouldn't cut it. The problem is that marijuana isn't their only source of income. But yes, legalizing marijuana is the first step. We'd see progress. After that we need to slowly start moving towards legalizing everything else, step by step. This way it won't come as a huge shock and consumption will remain around the same or even go down, and the cartels slowly go out of business. If done right we will see less crime and less drug use.

[Jexiel]

Of course they're loosing the war. You can't win a war on drugs. The sooner the US and Mexico both realize it and legalize drugs, the sooner we can end the violence.

I agree. As long as there is a demand there will be a market to cover that demand. If society allows individuals to smoke and drink as much as they want as long as they do it without harming others it must also allow individuals to snort, smoke, or inject as many drugs as that individual chooses to.

My moral responsibility is to inform you the harmful effects of your actions, prevent you from harming others that do not wish to participate alongside you, and provide my assistance and help if you request so of me. Otherwise, if all you truly want is to get high and ruin your life, go right ahead.

[Admiral Piett]

Timothy hit the nail on the head.

You've got to work economically on an economic problem.

[mrmouth]

This isnt a matter of simply legalizing something that can be cooked up in a guest bedroom, or grown in your backyard. You still have a situation where its cultivation and production happens in South America. So even if the government started importing legal cocaine, or even processing the raw materials here at home, you would still have illegal cocaine undercutting the price. It would dissolve into a price war, and eventually the NARCO traffickers would win, because it has never actually cost them all that much to bring it in. They would surely do it more efficiently, and cheaper than big government would.

All it would do is drive the price down. And I mean, honestly, do you ever see them legalizing something that utilizes petrol as part of processing?

This is an insurgency. And just like all the other notable insurgencies, violence will go up, and down. There will be success, and setbacks. It is all about patience.

[justicar5]

This isnt a matter of simply legalizing something that can be cooked up in a guest bedroom, or grown in your backyard. You still have a situation where its cultivation and production happens in South America. So even if the government started importing legal cocaine, or even processing the raw materials here at home, you would still have illegal cocaine undercutting the price. It would dissolve into a price war, and eventually the NARCO traffickers would win, because it has never actually cost them all that much to bring it in. They would surely do it more efficiently, and cheaper than big government would.

All it would do is drive the price down. And I mean, honestly, do you ever see them legalizing something that utilizes petrol as part of processing?

This is an insurgency. And just like all the other notable insurgencies, violence will go up, and down. There will be success, and setbacks. It is all about patience.

who said anything about goverment importing it? Let the tabacco comapnies at it.

[mrmouth]

who said anything about goverment importing it? Let the tabacco comapnies at it.

The yield is small. So in other words, it takes a massive amount of land for even moderate yields. And as for the climate, only Florida can support the crop. Even then, the soil is too acidic.

Beyond that, Coca is a way of life in the region that grows it. And has been for many centuries. So you risk starving, and alienating those people, by essentially devaluing their crop.

The best way to go would be importation of the coca leaf, and processing in the US.

[Avendiel]

The yield is small. So in other words, it takes a massive amount of land for even moderate yields. And as for the climate, only Florida can support the crop. Even then, the soil is too acidic.

Beyond that, Coca is a way of life in the region that grows it. And has been for many centuries. So you risk starving, and alienating those people, by essentially devaluing their crop.

The best way to go would be importation of the coca leaf, and processing in the US.

All he's saying is that there are options other than direct government control and gangs of thugs operating outside/against the law. Like...legal businesses, you know? Like the ones that make your shoes? Do we have a serious problem with illegal shoe trafficking? Hear about any shoe-smugglers shooting each other up down in Mexico recently?

[mrmouth]

All he's saying is that there are options other than direct government control and gangs of thugs operating outside/against the law. Like...legal businesses, you know? Like the ones that make your shoes? Do we have a serious problem with illegal shoe trafficking? Hear about any shoe-smugglers shooting each other up down in Mexico recently?

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you actually see the government making schedule 2 narcotics legal, and then letting private business control their production? It isnt Marijuana.

And aside form that, all my previous points still stand.

[bushbush]

can't they just declare martial law and have a few years of white terror? that seems to me the only solution for now.

[BlackPirate]

can't they just declare martial law and have a few years of white terror? that seems to me the only solution for now.

We dont have an insurgency here.We have some powerfull criminal gangs who tend to bribe everyone, from police to politicians.The worst is that everytime a blow is dealt against a criminal gang the actual winner is their rivals.Also the more you block Cocaine shipments of reaching their destination, the more the value of the shipment is raised.It is going to be a lengthy war

[Enemy of the State]

We dont have an insurgency here.We have some powerfull criminal gangs who tend to bribe everyone, from police to politicians.The worst is that everytime a blow is dealt against a criminal gang the actual winner is their rivals.Also the more you block Cocaine shipments of reaching their destination, the more the value of the shipment is raised.It is going to be a lengthy war

It has been held for close to 50 years already in the Americas. It's not just lengthy, it's perpetual.