Britain's fault in Great Famine in Ireland

**Stavroforos** · August 06, 2009, 01:47 PM

So, I am in beginning process of writing a paper on the subject, and considering the large numbers of Brits and Irish on this site I figured I could ask for some help.

I am mainly going to write about British reaction to the famine, and I would appreciate it if you folks could guide me along in choosing some recent scholarship for me to read up. Articles, books, you know the deal.

**Davebob** · August 06, 2009, 01:51 PM

If this thread is anything like the last one, I can imagine it will be an American, Irish v English thread and will end up getting locked.

**UnitedIreland** · August 06, 2009, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Davebob

If this thread is anything like the last one, I can imagine it will be an American, Irish v English thread and will end up getting locked.

It shouldn't as long as people keep the discussion about the famine.

**Stavroforos** · August 06, 2009, 01:57 PM

And so long as people recommend me relevant literature.

**UnitedIreland** · August 06, 2009, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Stavroforos

And so long as people recommend me relevant literature.

A good book would be 'The Irish Through British Eyes' by Edward G. Lengel (sp?)
It has a whole section titled 'The Famine And English Public Opinion'.

Don't ask me how good it is cause I've only read bits and pieces of it.

**6th Vigil** · August 06, 2009, 02:12 PM

Don't listen to anything Eire_Emerald tells you!!!!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Stavroforos** · August 06, 2009, 07:20 PM

Thanks so far guys.

Changed the title to hopefully lure some people in.

**Stavroforos** · August 07, 2009, 02:13 AM

I guess nobody cares about the Irish.

=(

**EireEmerald** · August 07, 2009, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Stavroforos

I guess nobody cares about the Irish.

=(

Mass graves in Ireland

There are loads of books I have at home as well as a DVD on some doumentary made by RTE. Umm, I am not sure whether or not these books are available in America.

**67th Tigers** · August 08, 2009, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Eire_Emerald

Mass graves in Ireland

To reiterate the point, "don't listen to anything Eire_Emerald tells you".

On the topic go back and read the last thread on this (ignoring some of the hyperbolic conspiracy theories), since you posted on it I know you know about it.

If interested then the best place to start is the output of University College, Cork; things like http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/British_Relief_Associations

**Ahlerich** · August 07, 2009, 02:36 AM

hehe, i was just gonna ask why you dont write about the indian famine in the 40s and british role in that

**Yorkshireman** · August 07, 2009, 05:00 AM

Don't universities give you reading lists ?

**67th Tigers** · August 08, 2009, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Yorkshireman

Don't universities give you reading lists ?

Depends largely on the quality and culture of the institution. At Oxford, for example, that crutch is only given to 1st year undergraduates. After that you're expected (with guidance) to be able to find your own literature.

**Davebob** · August 07, 2009, 05:34 AM

Maybe the Irish should of farmed something other than potatoes?

**EireEmerald** · August 07, 2009, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Davebob

Maybe the Irish should of farmed something other than potatoes?

"In 1819 England withdrew the subsidy for Irish fisheries and increased the subsidies to British fishermen - with the result that Ireland's possession of one of the longest coastlines in Europe, still left it with one of the most miserable fisheries.
However, throughout its history, I don't believe that Ireland was ever a major fishing country, at least not when compared to Norway, Iceland, Portugal, or Italy. It's amazing considering that the North Atlantic is one of the world's best fishing spots. On a similar note, I read in a book about how the Pilgrims starved in America their first winter when they didn't need to. The beaches were literally crawling with lobsters and other shellfish, but the Pilgrims were quite averse to trying new foods. Also, the waters off of New England were at the time some of the best fishing grounds ever, but the Pilgrims failed to exploit this. The Irish, too, were averse to trying new foods. During the famine, grain from America was shipped in, but many Irish were so accustomed to the potato that they couldn't really palate the wheat and other grains. Their diet had become so homongenous that anything foreign to them didn't sit well with them.
I think one major factor that needs to be mentioned is the role of religion (this, I think, applies to the Pilgrims as well, but I'll stick to the Irish famine). When the potato blight hit, many Irish thought it was divine Providence that had come to repay them for their sins. Many people thought that this was their "just desserts" and simply accepted their fate. Amazing as this sounds, one has to recall that religious conviction was much stronger 150 years ago than it is today. Also, along this same vein, most British people (read: Protestants) believed that it was also Providence that had come to strike down the "infidel" Catholics for practising a flawed religion. The Irish themselves thought it was because they hadn't followed God's laws, etc. Also, tying in with religion, when some Protestant groups set up soup kitchens they required people to convert in order to receive food. Many refused to do so and preferred to starve than convert."

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Irish-Cul...ato-famine.htm

http://www.permacultureireland.ie/ar...re-in-ireland/

The Irish were traditionally accustomed to eating a range of grains, (known collectively as corn), root and leaf vegetable crops, the wild herbs of the meadows, wild nuts and tubers, a little fruit and small amounts of meat and dairy products. Nettles, sorrel, docks and watercress, growing so prolifically in the wild and being delicious, were rightly relished! These plants might well be called ‘super-foods’ for the nutritional goodies they offer. But they came to be associated with poverty and deprivation, at least by the foreign chroniclers of the day.

The humble potato could provide four times as much food on a given area than any other crop. This was just as well, because the people were in for very hard times. In the 1720s King William III, at the bidding of the British parliament, destroyed Irelands flourishing woollens trade, by enacting a duty on their exportation, and navigation laws became another de-facto form of prohibition, bolstering the British industry at Ireland’s expense. (A later imposition of duties on linen manufactured in Ireland killed off that industry too.) Over 40,00 jobs were lost as a result. Together with the reduced amounts of tillage in the land, this caused extreme want. To cap it off, there was a series of very bad harvest from 1725 to ’28, and these caused “scenes of wretchedness unparalleled in the annals of any civilised nation”, O’Rourke, the author of ‘The Great Irish Famine’ noted in 1874. Emigration became very popular in 1728. Times were generally pretty tough between 1720 and 1740, probably peaking with the worst weather. A pamphlet published in 1740 cited “12 bad harvests with slight intermission.”

**6th Vigil** · August 07, 2009, 07:47 AM

You're wasting your time Eire i've already told Stavroforos to ignore anything you say on the matter. And Stavroforos always listens to what i tell him.

**EireEmerald** · August 07, 2009, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by 6th Vigil

You're wasting your time Eire i've already told Stavroforos to ignore anything you say on the matter. And Stavroforos always listens to what i tell him.

I have been studying the famine a lot since my last topic. If you have any problems with what I have already posted in this topic feel free to let me know.

Here are some random sources if you want them.
http://history1800s.about.com/od/imm...a/famine01.htm
British Government Reaction

The response of the British government to the calamity in Ireland has long been a focus of controversy. Government relief efforts were launched, but they were often ineffective. And modern commentators have noted that economic doctrine in 1840s Britain generally accepted that poor people were bound to suffer and that government intervention was not warranted.
The issue of English culpability in the catastrophe in Ireland made headlines in the 1990s, during commemorations marking the 150th anniversary of the Great Famine. Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair expressed regret over England's role in 1997, during commemorations of the 150th anniversary of the Famine. The New York Times reported at the time that "Mr. Blair stopped short of making a full apology on behalf of his country."

**6th Vigil** · August 07, 2009, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Eire_Emerald

I have been studying the famine a lot since my last topic. If you have any problems with what I have already posted in this topic feel free to let me know.

No problems as long as you stick away from genocide.

**Erebus Pasha** · August 07, 2009, 08:00 AM

We had a long thread on this not long back Stav so it might be worth looking that up.

**Stavroforos** · August 08, 2009, 12:23 AM

Thanks for all the info so far guys, it's been very helpful!

@ Yorkshire: Not when it's a research paper chosen from like 20 choices. Well some profs do, and tbh, the one I've had for my British history course has been pretty shite.