Cavalry classes and AI behavior....

[AqD]

I think the cavalry classes in new eastern units seem to have messed up a bit... will have to cleanup and re-test them again...

In RTR there are only 3 classes used: heavy, light, and missile, but it's inadequate to classify the units. In the next version all 5 will be used:

• Heavy: for charge and melee combat.
  Ex: Companion Cavalry, Roman Equites Alares, Thracian Heavy Cavalry (with javelins), Bactrian Horse-archers
• Light: for flanking, reserve, support.
  Ex: Punic Citizen Cavalry, Dahae Noble Horse-archers, Armenian Noble Cavalry (with javelins), Seleucid Medium Cavalry (with javelins)
• Skirmish: pure skirmishers (with javelins).
  Ex:
• Missile: pure horse archers & javelin throwers.
  Ex: light horse-archers and javelin cavalry - Tarantine Cavalry, Greek "Prodromoi".
• Spearmen: special class.
  Including all elephants and chariots, it should reduce their numbers and prevent them from occupying the heavy/light cavalry slots in AI recruitment plans (elephants are no alternative to heavy cav!)

For example, an ideal all-cav army by AI parthians could be

• Heavy: 2 x Cataphracts (lead charges)
• Light: 3 x Parthian Noble Cavalry (guard flanks & support melee), 3 x Dahae Nobles (guard flanks & fire support)
• Skirmish: 4 x Persian Cavalry (cannon fodders....)
• Missile: 4 x Parthian HA, 4 x Mercenary HA

Any comments?


PS: the classes have nothing to do with how players use them

[inquisitor]

PS: the classes have nothing to do with how players use them

Then the spearmen class doesn't get a -bonus fighting spearmen,and all swordsmen will shop elephants to barbeque ribs.

Or am i wrong here?

[mcantu]

skirmish is not a valid class. the AI will not recognize it properly for recruitment...

[AqD]

mcantu but it's accepted

Let me check the campaign


hmmm yeah you're right. AI would get them from merc pool but rarely recruit them

PS: the classes have nothing to do with how players use them

Then the spearmen class doesn't get a -bonus fighting spearmen,and all swordsmen will shop elephants to barbeque ribs.

Or am i wrong here?

yes. the classes are unrelated to weapons

[inquisitor]

yes. the classes are unrelated to weapons [/QUOTE]


Hm....?....when i changed the classes in EB i really got different results in battle,doesn't the weapons classifie a class?
When i gave my spearmen a sword,they didn't get the bonus against spearmen.When i changed there class the bonus was applied.
I thought the bonus is related to the class and not the weapon.
Because that way the spearmen(AI) recognize the bonus fighting cav.Give the the cav class the spearmen attribute and it will change that recognizing behavior.
I'm sure that the cav doesnt get a -bonus fighting spearmen then.

But i'm sure you know it better then me,after all you made a mod ....and i dont lol.

Srry for being thickheaded.

Maybe after smoking this piece in my hands.....things will clear up for me hehe

[AqD]

Hm....?....when i changed the classes in EB i really got different results in battle,doesn't the weapons classifie a class?
When i gave my spearmen a sword,they didn't get the bonus against spearmen.When i changed there class the bonus was applied.
I thought the bonus is related to the class and not the weapon.
Because that way the spearmen(AI) recognize the bonus fighting cav.Give the the cav class the spearmen attribute and it will change that recognizing behavior.
I'm sure that the cav doesnt get a -bonus fighting spearmen then.

But i'm sure you know it better then me,after all you made a mod ....and i dont lol.

thanks! I never noticed that

[AqD]

hmmm I'll need to re-test the infantry units as well.

[Caligula Caesar]

If it makes a difference, try adding infantry (or heavy(_)infantry if it works) +10 to mount_effect in EDU.

[tone]

Tell me.
Does the AI formations file dictate what units a faction will tend to recruit?

[AqD]

Nope, it's more or less related to AI personality in descr_strat I think. In fact I come to believe that AI formation file is nearly useless in Alexander, because AI frequently re-organizes the battle formation, especiall when attacking.

@Caligula Caesar: but that would give them anti-cavalry bonus, which I want to avoid

[Caligula Caesar]

I thought cavalry were pretty useless against elephants anyway... but you could use cavalry -10 as well.

[AqD]

oh i see what you mean! It's a good idea to keep elephants that away

[Sir Walter]

Are the AI recruitment plans for cavalry types hardcoded?

[inquisitor]

Are the AI recruitment plans for cavalry types hardcoded?

When you increase the costs and upkeep,decrease the charge stat...the AI wont build them so much.
It worked for me with the Chivalry mod.

[AqD]

It could be altered by AI personality. The one used for Parthians, for instance, prefers mix of light & missile cavalry with a few heavy cavalry.

[Sir Walter]

The problem with AI armies is sometimes they just look like a "Let the computer choose an army" thing on a custom battle - I gave it unlimited cash and it still chose peasants!

[AqD]

You need to give huge amounts regularly for them to recruit expensive units.

[despot_of_rhodes]

One can do that unit by unit in the EDU, but can´t a script be written, wich changes a recruitment/upkeep costs from the EDU if AI controlls this faction? Actually, it would be easier to let the script change the costs of the faction played by a human, since it´s only one... It is clear, that one has to gift AI lots of money to become a challenging oponent, but all it ends with is, that AI simply goes crazy, having uncounable armies, diplomats, wich can make some nasty bribings, while you can´t at all, and it has almoust no sence to blockade any port or siege a town, to cut it from the profitable trade, since AI would allways have enough cash. And, as expected, this ends almoust allways with stack spamming and some superpowers so early in the game, that you actually have to blitz the poor AI to be able to controll the situation, unless you want to fight stack after stack after stack, wich i actually hate, because of the repetidive effect, wich makes me quit the game after first 20-30 years playing...

[AqD]

@despot_of_rhodes: it still makes sense to blockade certain regions. Because trade is the single most important income in my mod (count more than 80%-90%), and trade can be easily affected by war, unlike tax, farming or mining. Also some cities are much richer than others. For example, well-developed Antioch may give as high as $30,000 per turn and Tyre $60,000 - if you have all the surrounding cities to trade with them.

[Sir Walter]

Surely you can make it better in some way...