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Thread: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

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  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Right now the Palestinians have a police force but no military due to the Oslo Accords, however should they be permitted to have a military?

    I ask this as Israel wants to see the end of Palestinian Militia forces like Hamas, yet it seems the current PSF is unable to get rid of it, and Israel cannot destroy it. The only option I see is to allow the PNA to posses a military force that is capable of both protecting Palestinian sovereignty and establishing the PNA as having the monopoly of military power in the Palestinian territories. It can be funded by the Arab League and trained by Egypt and Jordan.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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  2. #2
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Right now the Palestinians have a police force but no military due to the Oslo Accords, however should they be permitted to have a military?

    I ask this as Israel wants to see the end of Palestinian Militia forces like Hamas, yet it seems the current PSF is unable to get rid of it, and Israel cannot destroy it. The only option I see is to allow the PNA to posses a military force that is capable of both protecting Palestinian sovereignty and establishing the PNA as having the monopoly of military power in the Palestinian territories. It can be funded by the Arab League and trained by Egypt and Jordan.

    Yes. As long as they get surface to air missiles.

    For defense against Hamas and scary freedom hating people like that.




  3. #3
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Yes. As long as they get surface to air missiles.

    For defense against Hamas and scary freedom hating people like that.
    Haha...

    I'm just saying Israel wants Palestine to stop the militias but don't let them have the means to do it, and Palestine wants more and more sovereignty.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Haha...

    I'm just saying Israel wants Palestine to stop the militias but don't let them have the means to do it, and Palestine wants more and more sovereignty.
    that would assume that a right wing settlement expansionist government actually wants peace.




  5. #5

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    are they actually a recognized nation? if not than no, if so than still no (if i was israel)
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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    are they actually a recognized nation? if not than no, if so than still no (if i was israel)
    Why?

    A Palestinian military would be as much of a threat to Israel as a non infected mouse is to a lion.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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    Tajir's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Absolutely not! They might defend themselves!


  8. #8
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Of course they should, otherwise I wouldn't bet on them eradicating groups like Hamas anytime soon.

  9. #9
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Borat View Post
    Of course they should, otherwise I wouldn't bet on them eradicating groups like Hamas anytime soon.
    agreed. They should, as it will be best if they could effictively combat Hamas. plus it could give Israel a chance to let the Palestinians get rid of Hamas themselves.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tajir View Post
    Absolutely not! They might defend themselves!
    YEAH LETS JUST KEEP LETTING ISRAEL SLAUGHTER EM ALLL!



    .... the only country that shouldnt be allowed to have a military is israel, theyre a racist religious cult, not even a country, their "country" were set up by taking the land of the people who were already there... maybe instead of wandering the desert for 40 years they should have been setting up a country. The entire history of their "country" has been religious warfare and genocide theyve slaughtered far more innocent palestinians than hitler ever could have dreamed of.

    Palestine should be able to continue their militia activities AND have an army.

    DOWN WITH ISRAEL

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    Gertrudius's Avatar Hans Olo
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by xan0therxnumberx View Post
    YEAH LETS JUST KEEP LETTING ISRAEL SLAUGHTER EM ALLL!



    .... the only country that shouldnt be allowed to have a military is israel, theyre a racist religious cult, not even a country, their "country" were set up by taking the land of the people who were already there... maybe instead of wandering the desert for 40 years they should have been setting up a country. The entire history of their "country" has been religious warfare and genocide theyve slaughtered far more innocent palestinians than hitler ever could have dreamed of.

    Palestine should be able to continue their militia activities AND have an army.

    DOWN WITH ISRAEL
    I'm willing to bet that you don't have a very good understanding of Judaism, the history of the Levant, or contemporary Israel.

    Firstly, the violent history you seem to be referencing is integrally dependent on a cohesive religious structure. Do you know that the religion of ancient Israel was practiced by only a small minority of Israelites? This is easily demonstrable by a plethora of archeological data from the era, not to mention it's quite apparent from the Old Testament, if you accept that as a reliable source. The eliciting stimulus for a drive to a united religion and ethnicity was the result of the Assyrian destruction of the Northern Kingdom, and their subsequent invasion of the southern. The 20,000 survivors of the siege of Jerusalem provided the platform for a shortly lived resurgent kingdom, and this initial push was cemented during the Babylonian exile. Thus it is impossible for Jews to be culpable as a united culture, both ethnically and religiously, before 539 BC, and even then they did not gain independence until 168 BC. Thus your time line is utterly fallacious and misleading. You also have yet to demonstrate how ancient Jews are directly connected to modern events, and I relish watching you try and demonstrate the connection between the actions of ancient Israel and today's nation.

    And your comment about Hitler is rather confusing because the diction is phrased without any mention of Jews. So your saying that the modern state of Israel has killed more Palestinians than Hitler did? Because that's what your words say. But Ill be kind and acknowledge the intent of your point, but again reject it, because based on reliable and commonly accepted numbers, there were 5,533,900 Jews killed in the Holocaust, and based on the demographics of Palestine and the statistical trends leading into today's population distribution, there has not been that many Palestinians in a situation that could have resulted in death, let alone matching actual casualty figures. As a matter of fact if you wish I can dig up the casualty statistics of the most recent conflict, and they adequately shows that the Palestinians are far from being slaughtered indiscriminately in the droves by the IDF as you seem to imply.

    You also should look up the definition of racism, because some of Israels policies are rather bigoted, but racist would imply a complete disparity between the Jewish population and the Palestinian population. If you weren't aware, there are well over a million Palestinians, Bedouins, and Druze who hold Israeli citizenship. This tied to your over generalization of Israel as a completely Jewish country render your arguments laughable and a pitiful attempt at hyperbole. If you were in fact serious, I weep, because it is opinions like this that are keeping the situation from being resolved.

    And in closing, the post you initially addressed, was in fact sarcasm.

    Take it easy,

  12. #12

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    are they actually a recognized nation? if not than no, if so than still no (if i was israel)
    So an unrecognized nation can have a police force but not an army. Nice logic.

    Of course they should. Israel takes away any possible way of Palestinians forming an army and they accuse Palestinians of having armed movements that takes over in the absence of a native army.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    are they actually a recognized nation? if not than no, if so than still no (if i was israel)
    would you caare to elaborate?

    and yes, Palestine should have an army along with other rights that any other free country is entitled to but i don't see this happening anytime soon.






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  14. #14

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by blokoman View Post
    would you caare to elaborate?

    and yes, Palestine should have an army along with other rights that any other free country is entitled to but i don't see this happening anytime soon.
    Well if i was Israel and getting rockets launched into my country i would not like to see them have an army. The reason is that you are pouring a lot more military hardware that's unaccounted for by the Israelis. The Palestinian military buys some stingers, some unsavory elements "misplaces" them and Israel says goodbye to its Helicopters etc.
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
    - Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

    Nostalgia aint as good as it used to be

  15. #15

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    Well if i was Israel and getting rockets launched into my country i would not like to see them have an army. The reason is that you are pouring a lot more military hardware that's unaccounted for by the Israelis. The Palestinian military buys some stingers, some unsavory elements "misplaces" them and Israel says goodbye to its Helicopters etc.

    wouldn't need stingers, no SAMs at all in fact, let them upgrade the police to light infantry with some armour support, add in a few helicopters and viola, a force that can take on hamas.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    Well if i was Israel and getting rockets launched into my country i would not like to see them have an army.
    What if you were Palestine and you were being bombed, humiliated, bankrupted and deported?

    The reason is that you are pouring a lot more military hardware that's unaccounted for by the Israelis. The Palestinian military buys some stingers, some unsavory elements "misplaces" them and Israel says goodbye to its Helicopters etc.
    Helicopters that are used to assassinate possible 'terrorists', firing rockets into densely populated areas and killing lots of innocent bystanders. If I were a Palestinian I would be pissed too.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Of course they should. I do not see how people want it both ways. People frequently berate the Palestinians for not being able to deal with Hamas, or being unwilling to. When the truth is they literally cannot. Hell the Israelis for all their military competence and ability, and modern high technology weapons can't... how can they expect a police force to?

    If my country wasn't governed and ran by incompetent idiots like Labour... or Tories who are in the pocket of pro-Israeli factions.... we should take advantage of this niche market, and arm and train a future Palestinian Army. Instead this will go to the American Defence Companies, via Israeli ones as the two are linked, then we will miss out on a genuinely decent business and political venture.

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    ♔Goodguy1066♔'s Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Of course they should. I do not see how people want it both ways. People frequently berate the Palestinians for not being able to deal with Hamas, or being unwilling to. When the truth is they literally cannot. Hell the Israelis for all their military competence and ability, and modern high technology weapons can't... how can they expect a police force to?

    If my country wasn't governed and ran by incompetent idiots like Labour... or Tories who are in the pocket of pro-Israeli factions.... we should take advantage of this niche market, and arm and train a future Palestinian Army. Instead this will go to the American Defence Companies, via Israeli ones as the two are linked, then we will miss out on a genuinely decent business and political venture.
    What do you mean by "the Israelis for all their military competence and ability, and modern high technology weapons can't"? Of course we could, but that would mean killing many innocent civillians in the process because of the Human Sheild strategy that Hamas is using. Hell, we could destroy all 1.5 million palestinians if we wanted to, but we know better than that because we are very humane, unlike what the media tells the world.
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  19. #19
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/434494

    According to "The Nation" (not a reputable source by the way) its already happening to a degree. The source is not exactly reliable by the way.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  20. #20
    Gertrudius's Avatar Hans Olo
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    Default Re: Should Palestine be able to form a military?

    Yes. How else can they maintain stability in the PA without a military force? Israel should not be threatened in the least by this, anything the Palestinians could put together, even with foreign aid would be easily overwhelmed by the IDF. If the Palestinian military is trained by a neutral third party until it is self sufficient, then it retains a high level of professional discipline, while ensuring a force that will have clear superiority over radical groups. I think it would be a splendid idea for the PA to have a sizable military focused on light infantry and Special Forces supported by heavy armor and other mechanized units. I don't see much of a need for air assets (besides choppers) or Navy (besides a small Coast Guard) until they have clearly established the badly needed infantry forces, and been able to maintain relative order in the Gaza strip. The West Bank is doing pretty good as far as I know. This insures that Israel does not need to make military incursions into Palestinian territory, further cementing the PA's control over their territory. Sometime in this process, Palestine should become an independent and internationally recognized state.

    Just my thoughts, overly simplified and somewhat naive though they be.

    Take it easy,

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