Countering Roman Generals

[EmperorJulian]

Okay, I'm positive this has been talked about before, but I couldn't find anything on it, so my apologies ahead of time. I just got back into playing RTW/BI after a long absence, and I must admit I had forgotten how much of a problem Roman Generals can be. I was playing a test campaign as the Burgundians and I tried to capture a Roman city in Spain. My army numbered about 1300 versus the Roman garrison which contained about 150 troops, sadly 50+ of those were part of two Roman General Units. Needless to say when I engaged those units in the town square my ENTIRE army was routed and almost entirely destroyed. Effectively despite being outnumbered 10 to 1 (or there abouts) the Roman army was able to win easily.

I have run into this situation in other cases, during field battles with a Greek army for instance, in which the Roman Generals and heavy cav have just an amazing attack/morale advantage (on Hard/Hard). What I'm really wanting to know is how to properly counter this. In BI I'm using mostly barbarian troops with various types of upgrades, so I don't have anything equivalent to throw at the Western Empire. Bear in mind I'm also playing vanilla here with my own changes to the descr-strat file. No big mods to deal with. I'd just like some advice on how to not get annihilated by those pesky and often severely outnumbered Roman Leaders. Thanks ahead of time!

[Imperator Romani]

Hit them from afar. Guard your ranged units and wear the generals down if possible. This usually doesn't work considering the generals are calvary units, not giving you much time to do any damage, especially with 2 hp. I've found the best thing to do is siege weapons. You can hit them from afar and it's a one hit kill. The second best thing is phalynx, which might not be an option for you. And finally, the third option is to counter fire with fire. Use your generals against theirs, try to outnumber them here. Try to weaken the general's unit first, then send in yours, or try to send in your faction leader/heir against the average general. This way you have twice as many men. The downside to this tactic is that the Roman generals have much better stats than the others, and even the greater odds may turn in their favor, such as in your example. Hope this helps though.

[EmperorJulian]

one problem I find, PureInfantry, is that my barbarian morale wont last long enough to HOLD the generals before I'm able to swing my cavalry around into them. Timing is certainly very important but if my spearmen wont hold up for 3.7 seconds, there's really no way for me to do the hammer and anvil thing. When I was playing as the Greeks, things were a bit better. Upgraded armored hoplites could at least hold the line and with proper strategy even a big roman army would go down in the field. In this case I'm talking more about sieges in which I have lots of spearmen, cavalry and a barbarian general or two; and the town square bonus seems to make these generals almost invincible, except like you said, if they could be hit from afar.

with BI It's even more interesting since alot of the Roman armies I come across are not in the field, they're almost always in cities and as a horde I don't have access to onagers, well normally anyway. I already found out that my Burgundian plan to go to Spain was a little too lengthy, as I got beaten by the Alemanni and Franks; but I still need to deal with those Romans. Especially the Faction Leader unit as that's just an abomination unto itself. At any rate; thanks for the tips, I can keep them in mind as I try the Lombards; this time, I'll be heading for Italy. We'll see what happens anyway.

[Julius Barca the Great]

As PureInfantryWins said, missles are great. If you have upraged archers, then use those. Especially if your opponent is defending, whether in a city or on the field. Just focus all ranged units on their general, and the gaurd should be severely weakened. Even if the numbers aren't affected, they will have lost hitpoints, making your generals superior. Good luck in Italy, as you face silver/silver or gold/gold upgraded general-guards and high-end infantry.

[EmperorJulian]

I can imagine Italy wont be too fun, though as I found the track from Campus Burgundii to Carthago Nova took so long that I was outmatched by my German "alies" by the time I settled down. I certainly need a better initial strategy, possibly by not going as far or by forming a competent Empire from my starting location. Ransacking France wasn't too hard though, and I might even try using the Celts. Silver/Gold chevrons aren't too promising though, especially with Horde units. I'll just need to get a plan that's functional. Roman units of any type can hit barbarian horde armies hard, so it will take some thought. Thanks for the replies thus far.

[C-Rob]

Well, I want to chime in and say Effective against Armor and Bonus fighting Cavalry are your closest allies. Don't barbarians have warcry? That'll give you a nice at least 10 seconds before they rout- if they're going to in the first place. And your general can always Rally as his bodyguard wheels around for the hammer as your infantry engages, giving you time to set up for the effective charge. or you can charge with one unit bodyguard and one unit infantry and come in to the back with more infantry. make sure you press ALT as you attack with your bodyguard so it uses its more effective swords.

I haven't played BI for a while though so I can't remember just how useful any of this is. Sorry.

Edit_ about the townsquare bonus, then make them charge your units. They usually will charge for me... Just be patient.

maybe even so much as you shoudl sit at the captured gate and have those fire on the bodyguard as they engage, as they usually do. I believe.

Lombard archers will be a Godsend for you.

[EmperorJulian]

I forgot about the alt-attack business, I'll have to keep that in mind. One issue is when I try to attack across a large town square, like I said the units route before I can get to them. The warcry ability might be useful there as I'd only need a little bit more time to get over and hit the generals units in the back. I have done the "let them charge" thing by peppering them with arrows, still the result is a total route even with the general there. I forgot about the rally ability too, so I'll keep that in mind as well. Drawing the generals unit the wall I'm less sure about, though if I waited them out that might be more of a possibility. The problem there being that in BI cities can hold out for quite a while, often 7 or 8 turns. Anyway I'll put these ideas to use in my next campaign.

[C-Rob]

i meant during the actual siege. Sometimes the AI will be proactive in its defense and charge you as you approach the square. I was thinking that perhaps they'd go so far as to charge you at your captured gate.

[EmperorJulian]

To the best of my knowledge the AI for generals in RTW keeps them out of harms way. For instance in sieges (where you -the player- are under siege) the AI generals will stay out of range until all the other units are destroyed (well at least usually). Conversely when there are only generals left when the AI is besieged they stay in their own town square and wait for the player. Another point to make is it's hard to line up your units at the town square when your attacking with a horde. Horde units are not really all that organized. And its hard to move them into position without setting off a premature charge by the AI generals.

Horde spearmen are effectively organized like peasants and when you move them onto the streets near the town square they tend to spill into the square and get charged right away. A very different situation from when you can set up your army and get the generals unit to charge on your terms. That's been a big challenge to be sure. However I do have some new ideas, hopefully that will help going forward.