Mount defense/hp problem

**Hayami Kagemusha** · July 31, 2009, 07:49 PM

Okay so I've searched a number of threads and tested a number of things in the file now, still haven't found a solution so its time to start a new thread. Maybe the answer is burried here somewhere but if it is, its not a bad thing to bring it out XD

I've been doing work for a campaign submod of Battles of Asia, I have worked out the vast majority of bugs and crashes already and now I've encountered a balancing issue. All units in BoA have 2 hp to make battles longer and drawn out. Every infantry and cavalryman, regular or elite shares this stat.

However, while rebalancing unit stats recently I discovered that, while on paper the cavalrymen are superior to infantry in almost every category, they are getting slaughtered piecemeal in one on one melee combat with even the most basic infantry and archers in melee. Now granted, infantry hold a tighter formation and slightly outnumber the cavalrymen... but the numbers I'm seeing are ridiculous. Spear-armed and sword-armed cavalry are losing to basic, sword-armed light infantry while only killing 3-8 men in return.

Anyhow, its fairly clear to me that the issue involves the horse mount itself. I realize that a horse is a large target making it easier to hit the cavalrymen, but even then it shouldn't make such a huge difference. I suspect that horses are hardcoded to only have 1 hp regardless of the hp of the rider. Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone had similar issues? Is there someway to change this? I have already tried changing the secondary hp value in the EDU (the one used for animal handler units), no luck.

Thanks!

**CaesarVincens** · July 31, 2009, 10:09 PM

As you suspect, horses have only one hp. Secondary hp affects only auto-resolve.

**Hayami Kagemusha** · August 01, 2009, 01:10 AM

Ah thanks so much. any recommendation on how to best balance the offset hps?

**CaesarVincens** · August 01, 2009, 02:23 AM

Not really. I'm not much in the way of balancing units. You might look at the complete guide to EDU in the tutorials section.

**AqD** · August 01, 2009, 05:51 AM

horses have as many HP as the riders. It's the same.

To balance the issue, I give all cavalry +50% attack than infantry, and high defenses - ex: even light cavalry should have same defense as non-elite heavy inf, and attack as elite swodsmen's. Also you may want to give them +1 or +2 armour bonus, to compensate for their lack of shields.

**Kylan271** · August 01, 2009, 10:57 AM

You should talk to Aradan via his EDU guide here about Mounts as many things to consider. The peltast + mount bug has me stressed-peltast bonus vs Elephants but mounts penalised vs Elephants lol as example. Going with AQD's thinking,an Elephanst has a 3 defensive bonus in RTW vanilla,so along this you assign-as in mine: Light Horse 5/Med 4/Hvy 3/General's Horse 4,to mount defensive,ie Light horse = stat_sec_armour 0, 5 . And doing a selfless plug heh...if you use AQD's mounts,you can give an armour bonus to match his horse textures,ie +1 to +3(it is around leather armour range in RTW vanilla) ^_* ,so an armoured mount would be: stat_sec_armour 1, 5 (cloth armour & light horse).

**Hayami Kagemusha** · August 01, 2009, 07:54 PM

Thanks everyone, I'm pretty sure this problem is resolved. Just need some time to test it now.
I feel stupid for not realizing it sooner... yes I forgot about the secondary defense stat >.<;

Originally Posted by CaesarVincens

Not really. I'm not much in the way of balancing units. You might look at the complete guide to EDU in the tutorials section.

I have actually read through all the EDU tutorials here, I can't believe I still forgot.

Originally Posted by aqd

horses have as many HP as the riders. It's the same.

To balance the issue, I give all cavalry +50% attack than infantry, and high defenses - ex: even light cavalry should have same defense as non-elite heavy inf, and attack as elite swodsmen's. Also you may want to give them +1 or +2 armour bonus, to compensate for their lack of shields.

Yes I noticed the BoA team originally compensated for cavalry's low defense by giving them very high attack. But are you sure they all have the same hp? Do we have some way to prove it? I'm thinking that even if I adjust the horse's defense values, the horse still is way more vulnerable than infantry... is that due to lower HP or simply the difference in formation and size of cavalry? Thanks though, definitely helps.

Originally Posted by Kylan271

You should talk to Aradan via his EDU guide here about Mounts as many things to consider. The peltast + mount bug has me stressed-peltast bonus vs Elephants but mounts penalised vs Elephants lol as example. Going with AQD's thinking,an Elephanst has a 3 defensive bonus in RTW vanilla,so along this you assign-as in mine: Light Horse 5/Med 4/Hvy 3/General's Horse 4,to mount defensive,ie Light horse = stat_sec_armour 0, 5 . And doing a selfless plug heh...if you use AQD's mounts,you can give an armour bonus to match his horse textures,ie +1 to +3(it is around leather armour range in RTW vanilla) ^_* ,so an armoured mount would be: stat_sec_armour 1, 5 (cloth armour & light horse).

Haha I actually have the Aradan one bookmarked, definitely is a good guide. If I had reread it recently I would have noticed what I was donig wrong.... doh. But thanks, your post is what made me slap my head and go "doh... I'm an idiot" XD

**Kylan271** · August 14, 2009, 09:17 AM

Oh I forgot prob you may face is:

1. Check the charge bonuses for both primary&secondary weapons...they have to be same or spear wont work in charge..it is a bug work around,Aradan pointed it out.
2. Secondary armour does not show in UI text I noticed,check the Mod you use the Elephant secondary defence and see if defensive bonus,ie in RTW vanilla it is: 10,3 ???? Adjust to your horses if so like mine,ie speed bonus as horses are agile more than elephants to catch and hit(mine is 3heavy to 6light horse as above,so 0,3 to 0,6). Not sure how your mod works???