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Thread: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

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  1. #1
    Ordinarius
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    Default The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rsforcash.html
    Not all auto recyclers are relishing the government's new cash for clunkers program, which requires car dealers to destroy the gas-guzzlers they get as trade-ins from new car buyers.

    Used engines and drivetrains are a big part of recyclers' income from each scrapped car, and under the federal program those engines must be destroyed. The idea is to promote fuel efficiency and help automakers, but it comes at a time when more than a dozen U.S. auto parts suppliers have filed for bankruptcy this year.

    "Why throw away good parts when the supply chain is in jeopardy? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense," said Michael Wilson, executive vice president of the Automotive Recyclers Association based in Manassas, Va.

    Engines and drivetrains account for 60 percent of recyclers' revenue from a used vehicle, Wilson said.

    Under cash for clunkers, the government is advising car dealers to replace a trade-in's engine oil with a sodium silicate solution and run the engine to ruin it before giving or selling the car to a scrap dealer.

    The Automotive Recyclers Association says that can damage otherwise sellable parts like pistons - and mean smaller profits for scrap yards, considering it can cost $700 to $1,200 to process a car, including transport and removing toxic items like mercury, Wilson said. Recyclers' profits vary but can reach several hundred dollars for a 6-year-old car.

    "I haven't decided that I want the cars," said George Clark of Western Auto Recycling in Denver. Still, he said, he might make money crushing clunkers if he doesn't have to buy them from dealers.

    The cash for clunkers program, officially called the Car Allowance Rebate System, took effect July 1, and rules were published Friday. It offers drivers who trade in qualifying vehicles up to a $4,500 credit toward a new, more fuel-efficient car from participating dealers. The government reimburses dealers.

    The Colorado Automobile Dealers Association estimates the $1 billion program could boost sales 10 percent or so for its roughly 260 dealers before it ends Nov. 1 - earlier if the federal money runs out. In April, the market research firm Auto Outlook Inc. estimated Colorado would have 108,510 new retail light-vehicle registrations in 2009.

    Nationwide, an estimated 250,000 people could get credits, helping to spur sales at a time when industry sales are down 35 percent.

    Some recyclers say cash for clunkers will hurt lower-income buyers who can't afford a new car, even with the federal credit. They also claim that destroying vehicles will increase prices for spare parts that lower-income customers depend on to keep their cars running.

    "Now you're removing cars people could afford, and they're not available anymore," said Norm Wright, CEO of Stadium Auto and Truck Parts Inc., a Denver recycler. "There will be less cars to pull from, so the price of parts will go up."

  2. #2

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    and? add some commentary before you expect comments.
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
    - Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

    Nostalgia aint as good as it used to be

  3. #3

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    great more state welfare....

  4. #4
    Aetius's Avatar Vae victis
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    I hate this.

    I was thinking of just buying a POS car and then trading that in to make a profit (why not profit from our government foolishness, its our money). Alas, those crappy cars prices are raising, so I won't even be able to do that.

    Its the government interfering where they shouldn't again.
    Blut und Boden

  5. #5

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Reuse is better then throw away because you want something marginally better to replace it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Ah big government, please please....please for the love of all thats pasta, stay away from this sort of scheme in the future.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Anyone know if you have to prove that you've owned the car for a certain amount of time to be able to get credit for it? Because that seems like the government would be asking for fraud if you don't need proof.

    A bit off topic, but how the hell could Congress not have known this would go over so good? They expected the money they supplies the program with to last until November, here we are like a week in and the plan is already bankrupt lol.
    Forget the Cod this man needs a Sturgeon!

  8. #8
    C-Rob's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Seriously, that IS insane. why would you tell them to destroy the vehicle's parts? Can lawmakers EVER ask people in the industry they're affecting before they sign a bill?(or for once, LISTEN to them..)

    I think this scheme doesn't exist as of last night though, cuz' they ran out of cash and the house is deciding if it'll continue or not.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Well lets not forget the government IS in the autoindustry now.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    You expected the Obama administration to fix problems? To be honest it has just created more... this incentive program was just stupid. The idea of all Americans driving fuel-efficient cars is wonderful but this scheme will not do that =/ That's the problem with liberals in government. Their ideas sound good, but when they actually propose bills and pass legislation the hits the fan so to say

  11. #11

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    add to it, the billion dollars set aside for this is now running dry....

  12. #12
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    This was done in Germany as well with a 3 billion Euro budget. Overall quite succesfuly. "Needed" because the many German car-manufactors "needed" some fast consuming influx, but there are ofcourse downsides like allot of used cars sales-men going bankrupt as the demand for their cars is down, people buying Japanese cars etc.

    Overall, twas kay. The manufactors are all still around and many drive shiney new cars that are a bit more eco-friendly.

    Misuse and fraud where minor issues btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  13. #13

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    This was done in Germany as well with a 3 billion Euro budget. Overall quite succesfuly. "Needed" because the many German car-manufactors "needed" some fast consuming influx, but there are ofcourse downsides like allot of used cars sales-men going bankrupt as the demand for their cars is down, people buying Japanese cars etc.

    Overall, twas kay. The manufactors are all still around and many drive shiney new cars that are a bit more eco-friendly.

    Misuse and fraud where minor issues btw.
    I'm willing to bet the carbon footprint of keeping the old cars would have been less than the one for creating new cars, even if they were more efficient, and plus some innocent business people wouldn't have gone out of business/suffered because the government changed the rules to something non-market friendly mid game.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  14. #14
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I'm willing to bet the carbon footprint of keeping the old cars would have been less than the one for creating new cars, even if they were more efficient, and plus some innocent business people wouldn't have gone out of business/suffered because the government changed the rules to something non-market friendly mid game.
    Im willing to bet that is the case apart from the eco-friendly argument being somewhat naive any way(but all bits help), if it where not that car-manufactors produce way ahead, so the mayor share of the cars where already build. Otherwise they would sit on their cars and debts, the millions of people involved out of work, maybe some car-manufactors working towards chapter.11, but allot of suppliers without a doubt would be shut down.

    Nothing is perfect, but "letting the market sort itself out" even less IMO, but the US situation at this time is another indeed.
    Last edited by Thorn777; July 31, 2009 at 09:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  15. #15

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Putting aside the argument of whether such plans are good one lets look at this for a moment. With the billions upon billions of economics stimulus spent that thus far show every little in job growth, this program pegged at 1 billion actually does increase production, hence jobs etc. It actually does what the goal of the plan was meant to achieve and what does goverment do with that knowledge? Kill it. I mean the wasteful government inference thing is a valid argument but that hasnt stopped Obama admin yet but this idea actually achieved the goals it was meant to and was successful to boot, evidently a working plan that produces results is a bad thing.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Putting aside the argument of whether such plans are good one lets look at this for a moment. With the billions upon billions of economics stimulus spent that thus far show every little in job growth, this program pegged at 1 billion actually does increase production, hence jobs etc. It actually does what the goal of the plan was meant to achieve and what does goverment do with that knowledge? Kill it. I mean the wasteful government inference thing is a valid argument but that hasnt stopped Obama admin yet but this idea actually achieved the goals it was meant to and was successful to boot, evidently a working plan that produces results is a bad thing.
    Well, they haven't killed it yet, have they? From what I heard from Obama on the news, they were surpised it worked as well as it did, and were planning on allocating more. So I guess another thing we could look at for a moment is how the one plan that is working (at least immediatly) is the one plan that recieved not enough government money.

  17. #17
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Good policy. Let's get those old cars off the road, get people buying new cars, and stop having as many automobiles producing so much pollution.

  18. #18
    Ordinarius
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Good policy. Let's get those old cars off the road, get people buying new cars, and stop having as many automobiles producing so much pollution.
    Manufacturing new vehicles produces alot of pollution as well. And the destruction of perfectly functional used automobiles is a complete waste and is environmentally unfriendly.
    Last edited by over-man; August 01, 2009 at 12:26 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Sounds like a bad copy of a useless and ineficent German Law


  20. #20
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    Default Re: The insanity of the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by over-man View Post
    Manufacturing new vehicles produces alot of pollution as well. And the destruction of perfectly functional used automobiles is a complete waste and is environmentally unfriendly.
    But the new cars would be produced eventually anyway, and the old automobiles would have to retire eventually too. Why not offer people a chance to help the auto industry and the environment at the same time now rather than having them wait a few more years where nobody will profit?

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