Canadian Protestant proposal seen as anti-semitic

[Ebusitanus]

Canadian Protestant proposal seen as anti-Semitic

July 29, 2009

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/07/...d-anti-semitic

TORONTO (JTA) -- Jewish groups in Canada are calling a proposed academic boycott of Israel by the country's largest Protestant sect "an "obscene gesture."

The United Church of Canada is expected to offer a resolution at its general council in August calling for a "comprehensive boycott of Israeli academic and cultural institutions at the national and international levels." The statement also will refer to Israel's assault on Gaza last December as a "visible reminder of the ongoing Israeli regime of exclusion, violence and dehumanization directed against Palestinians."

Israel, the proposal states, was "built mainly on land ethnically cleansed of its Palestinian owners."

The resolutions on the Middle East, among dozens of proposals on many issues, will be debated and voted on at the council.

"This puts the United Church in some very questionable company," Eric Vernon of the Canadian Jewish Congress told the National Post newspaper. "The use of boycott, divestment and sanction has been a weapon used by Israel's enemies to destroy it. Those are elements of anti-Semitic behavior in the contemporary world."

Frank Dimant, executive vice president of B'nai Brith Canada, said he was "disgusted" with the proposal.

"This is an obscene gesture by a religious group, and my hope is that Christians will turn their backs on this resolution," he said.

In 2006, a United Church proposal to cut financial investments in Israeli companies never made it to a vote. Three years before that, the church issued a groundbreaking document, "Bearing Faithful Witness," which sought rapprochement with Jews.

[Tiberios]

I can se why this has been seen as anti semitic. Personally I think it's idiotic to propose this.

[Gromovnik]

I can se why this has been seen as anti semitic. Personally I think it's idiotic to propose this.

to bad it isn't...

[Tiberios]

to bad it isn't...

Anti-Semitic? I don't think it is. As I said, I can se why some would claim it is.

I think it's ridicoulus.

[ShADoW]

I lost you at Church

[Jexiel]

That church should stay out of politics unless Canada permits religious political activity.

[OTZ]

That church should stay out of politics unless Canada permits religious political activity.

Legitimate religious political parties exist in Canada.

[eddy_purpus]

Legitimate religious political parties exist in Canada.

=o


Canada is seriously messed up

[Phier]

Nice to see some Canadians are stupid too.

[Gauvin]

What a bunch of morons. No boycott for religious fanatics whose charter still mandates the destruction of a member state of the U.N., but a boycott for a liberal democracy trying to defend its citizens from such groups.

[wilpuri]

What a bunch of morons. No boycott for religious fanatics whose charter still mandates the destruction of a member state of the U.N., but a boycott for a liberal democracy trying to defend its citizens from such groups.

Zionism is the Jewish equivalent to national-socialism, and the two developed paralell to each other, in Germany. Saying this out loud, of course, is anti-Semitic according to the Zionists.

Israel is not a liberal democracy, it is an ethnically-defined state (nothing wrong with that per se, just that most Zionist Jews living outside Israel often vocally criticize any ethnic nationalism in their host nations).

It is not some shining beacon of liberal democracy in a sea of semitic dictatorships, it is a regime that discriminates its own citizens on grounds of ethnicity.

Being anti-Zionist does not mean being anti-Semitic. Although the Zionist themselves are of the opinion that denying Israel's right to existance is somehow anti-semitic - it is not. It is anti-Zionist.

[PSYCHO V]

This is why I call myself an anti-Semite, and proud of it.

The word used to mean something bad, but now it means you are against war and ethnic oppression.
People who aren't anti-Semitic ... are just racist.

... mirror mirror on the wall...

[Orko]

Zionism is the Jewish equivalent to national-socialism, and the two developed paralell to each other, in Germany.

How is it?
People just throw words and chant slogans and compare things, but when they are asked why, they turn away like the cowards they are.

[wilpuri]

How is it?
People just throw words and chant slogans and compare things, but when they are asked why, they turn away like the cowards they are.

There is that type of coward, true, and there is the type of coward who will not accept facts even when they're thrown in his face. Let's hope that neither of us falls into those two categories.

Since the topic is very far-reaching and multifaceted, I trust you to make your own research and conclusions after I provide a couple of pointers.

First of all, Zionism developed paralell to the national romanticism sweeping across Europe in the 19th century. It followed a very similar path an very similar logic, at the end of which would be the Jewish National State - a country for Jews - Israel. Moses Hess, one of the founding fathers of Zionism, coined the term national socialism.

Akin to its European counterparts, an extreme form of Zionism developed, one which was prepared to collaborate with the Third Reich and did so. This is not to say that Zionism is the same as Hitler's National Socialism - of course it isn't - but therein lies a double standard in the discussion of Zionism. It is anti-semitic to make such comparisons, but it is not anti-Swedish to call a democratic party such as the Sweden democrats "Nazis".

So if you find ethnic nationalism in general despicable, why not also find Jewish ethnic nationalism despicable? Why give preferential treatment or look the other way from the realities? Israel today is an ethnically defined state, with an attitude towards non-Jews not unlike that of whites towards non-whites in Apartheid South Africa.

I personally don't have a problem with Jewish nationalism as a concept (if I were Palestinian, I'd have a thing or two to say about the nature of Zionism, particularily the bit entitling complete foreigners to my lands), fine and dandy by me, but let's not pretend it isn't what it is.

Who told a Berlin audience in March 1912 that “each country can absorb only a limited number of Jews, if she doesn’t want disorders in her stomach. Germany already has too many Jews”?

No, not Adolf Hitler but Chaim Weizmann, later president of the World Zionist Organization and later still the first president of the state of Israel.

And where might you find the following assertion, originally composed in 1917 but republished as late as 1936: “The Jew is a caricature of a normal, natural human being, both physically and spiritually. As an individual in society he revolts and throws off the harness of social obligation, knows no order nor discipline”?

Not in Der Stürmer but in the organ of the Zionist youth organization, Hashomer Hatzair.

As the above quoted statement reveals, Zionism itself encouraged and exploited self-hatred in the Diaspora. It started from the assumption that anti-Semitism was inevitable and even in a sense justified so long as Jews were outside the land of Israel.

It is true that only an extreme lunatic fringe of Zionism went so far as to offer to join the war on Germany’s side in 1941, in the hope of establishing “the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by a treaty with the German Reich”. Unfortunately this was the group which the present Prime Minister of Israel chose to join.

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/review.htm

Moses Hess and Zionism:

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/Moses..._Jerusalem.htm (Zionist source)

http://www.mailstar.net/avineri.html

[Last Roman]

Nice to see some Canadians are stupid too.

ya, those Jews are sure stupid for calling this anti-Semitic.

[Phier]

ya, those Jews are sure stupid for calling this anti-Semitic.

No need to be obtuse. I never said it was anti-semetic, its just an extremely stupid idea.

[Erik]

This is why I call myself an anti-Semite, and proud of it.

The word used to mean something bad, but now it means you are against war and ethnic oppression.
People who aren't anti-Semitic (ie: don't criticize Israel's violent actions no matter how horrifying) are just racist.

[Orko]

This is why I call myself an anti-Semite, and proud of it.

The word used to mean something bad, but now it means you are against war and ethnic oppression.
People who aren't anti-Semitic (ie: don't criticize Israel's violent actions no matter how horrifying) are just racist.

That is as retarded as supporting the KKK proudly and saying it's a good thing because there is civil war and cruelty in Africa.

[Keravnos]

This is why I call myself an anti-Semite, and proud of it.

There is honest criticism, then there is antisemitism.
Saying that Israel doesn't not behave as it should is criticism. Speaking about it, even chanting Anti-Israeli songs in gatherings and marches is criticism. Hard as it might be to bear, it is expression of a sentiment that you may NOT agree with, but it is there none the less and those expressing it are seen and heard and understood. Calling for "comprehensive boycott of Israeli academic and cultural institutions at the national and international levels." is Antisemitic, Pure and simple. It is like the book burning of the Nazis in that regard.

The word used to mean something bad,

Pogroms, discrimination of the sort that you Eric would find difficult to fathom and well, the Holocaust. IT STILL DOES no matter how much your 'nuspeak' approach tries to hide it.

but now it means you are against war and ethnic oppression.

That's plain wrong and you know it. If you lived in a country where buses exploded with your people in it and then those who did it were glorified as heroes by their own people chanting on the street, or if your house was on the path of tens of incoming rockets EVERY DAY, you would probably have a different opinion. Israel is a country which had to fight 3 major wars since 1948. How many major wars (meaning that the survival of your country is at stake) did your country have to fight?

But then, I guess you would say that bus bombings killing innocent were "the only way to fight against Israel" or that rocket attacks shouldn't be punished (like Israel did during its assault on Gaza) "because they didn't kill enough Israelis to warrant such an action". Both fail beyond belief.

People who aren't anti-Semitic (ie: don't criticize Israel's violent actions no matter how horrifying) are just racist.

People who are anti-semitic (ie: praise terrorist organizations [Hamas] for killing Israelis no matter how horrifying their acts) are just in bed with Hitler, no matter how different their ideologies appear to be to Hitler's "ideology" (on the outside).

I must say it again: Being anti-Semitic leads to terror and massive death down the line. Exactly like "The chronicles of the Elders of Zion" led to Pogrom, exactly like "Mein Kampf" led to the Holocaust. This is a road that leads to perdition. It has in the past, it certainly will in the future. History is crystal clear on this matter, therefore I must urge to people not to go down that road, as we all know where it leads.

[Caduet]

Calling for "comprehensive boycott of Israeli academic and cultural institutions at the national and international levels." is Antisemitic, Pure and simple. It is like the book burning of the Nazis in that regard.

False. Expressing disapproval through a boycott does not equal burning books like a Nazi. They aren't doing it because they dislike Jews. They do it to send a message to Israel.