Hydrogen Fuel Cell or Battery

[Rhaegar1]

Hey guys I was wondering what you guys think that will become the standard as energy source in future cars and why.

10 years ago hydrogen fuel cells where one of those ideas everyone featured in their "utopia technology" lists. And still it is perhaps the strongest candidate to replace gasoline (and diesel and LPG) as main energy source for cars.

But this last decenium I noticed (I could be wrong of course) such a fast development and such great promises in 'conventional' batterys that I'm wondering if it's not more likely that before reliable, safe and cheap fuell cells and more importantly the necessary infrastructure is established for hydrogen, battery's willl allready have aquired a firm grip on the car industry.

The way I see it:

Battery's
+ research is allready decades underway and not only pushed forward by the car industry but also for example by consumer electronics producers
+ the Infrastructure is allready established (lots of people have electricity)
- IIRC is 60 % of the worlds lithium reserves based in colubia and heavily dependancy for such an important ground source on only one (not top of the notch western) democracy is not advisable.
- there's still a lot of research to be done in making battery's last longer, reduce weight and most importantly their recharge time

Hydrogen fuel cells
+ a very good potential source of energy, raw materials are quit common and a fuell cell can deliver a lot of energy for a lot of time
+ Production of the fuell can in principle be done about everywhere on the world as long as there's enough electricity and water around.
- rebuilding the oil based infrastructure into a hydrogen based one will require a lot of time and money
- Also requires a lot of research since storing the hydrogen effectively proves to be quit a challenge.

At the moment we start seeing cars of both types get into grown up shape (as in decent range, top speed and dimensions), but I think it's still not certain which will come out on top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX_Clarity

So I was wondering what your thoughts on this subject are?

By the way I'm a master student applied physics so I'm quit capable of getting into some deeper theory if someone feels the need to educate me.

[Sphere]

For automobiles I think battery technology is more likely to take-off. The distribution infrastructure is already in place, as well as the propulsion system. The only area's of development needed are increasing energy density and extending lifespan of the batteries themselves.

Hydrogen fuel cells in automobiles would require a brand new infrastructure, a system for densely storing hydrogen safetly, and each car would still require a battery and electric propulsion system. This is on top of a already expensive fuel cell. Not to mention that currently the most efficient way to produce hydrogen is from fossil fuels.

The area that hydrogen may be advantageous for is stationary electrical production, where you could install a large pressure tank, like an LP tank, and a small AC sized fuel cell which could power an entire house. This could supplant traditional power distribution in remote area's, and also diesel generators.

[Ter]

Top Gear did a rather good section on this (probably the best thing they've done in a few years). As they pointed out Hydrogen leads to less of a change in lifestyle than would occur with the current charging times for the battery powered cars, but I'd say battery looks much more workable at the minute.

(I've also just finished a Masters in physics but I do particle - this isn't really my area of expertise)

[Ramashan]

...and most importantly their recharge time

This is my number one detraction from jumping onto the battery band wagon. There seems to be this blind rush to make all electric cars without thinking about the real world issues that are involved with every day folk driving them.

Now, I'm not saying people are stupid, but we are human. How many times have you pushed your car on empty just a bit more to get those extra miles? Or got in the car, drove onto the freeway, and then while stuck in traffic realized your out of gas?

We see stalled cars all the time, I've even run out of gas on two occasions simply because I wasn't paying attention to the needle or couldn't find a station close enough. Stuff happens.

Now, when this happens with a gas car, AAA comes and puts a half gallon in, you walk to the nearest gas station and suck it up to buy a gas can, or just carry a gas can with you. Simple, you put gas in and go. With an electric car your simply SOL until you can get it charged again. How long does this take? Minutes? Hours?

Too many things can go wrong, you can plug it in in properly, there could be a power outtage, you could forget to plug it in, your drive can take longer than you anticipated (This will be an effect till batteries with longer lifes come on the market.) or the dog or kids accidently unplug it. Then your only option is to potentially take a day off work to charge your car.

All that to say, I think we definitely need a third, perhaps short term option till the tech gets better, that is the hybred in some form or another. Even if it has 1 gallon of gas to help in dire straights.

Otherwise, I would like to see more Hydrogen, but has already been mentioned, this entails a systemic infrastructure change from top to bottom, so may be too costly in both time and money.

[chamaeleo]

I'm for batteries or capacitator systems. Lithiums are but a stop gap, there's already several promising alternatives on the horizon.

Off topic, any idea why nobody's marketing rechargeable 1.5 V lithium AA batteries? Annoys me to no end...

As for running out of juice en route to Timbuktu...permanently mount some solar panels on the roof. It'd take a long while to totally replenish, but it might get you to the next charger station in less time than waiting for AAA to arrive. Or, simply install periodic emergency chargers on existing roadside streetlights. The nice thing about chargers is it's typically an inverse log recharge rate, a few minutes can go a long way!

I see the first generation electrics as strictly short-distance commuter vehicles(<100km range), but we've got to start somewhere.