Convert me to Atheism

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Since EMM is always invaded with threads trying to prove why Atheism is so much better than other belief systems, I thought of a challenge to pursue this fun activity. I am said to be a "Theist", and I invite you to convert me to Atheism. I don't care which denomination of Atheism do you belong to, just convert me to this awesome religion called "Atheism". You can use any tool you like, you don't even have to appeal to Reason. Point out mistakes, inconsistencies in my notion of God, deny the possible existence of the divine, mock the manifestation theory, amuse me with stories where Theists said stupid things, find examples in history where my belief was used to incite hatred / holy wars etc. Tell me about the tale of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, deny my right to subjective experience of God, compare me to creationists.

The only restriction is that you have to put some effort into it, f.e. saying "Oh, that's easy. Just quit believing in god." will be met with opposition. I am eagerly awaiting this exciting opportunity to finally join the club of the enlightened.

[Tankbuster]

Atheism is not a religion.
So the concept of 'converting someone to atheism' is completely foreign to me.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

It is a belief system with certain ountouchable dogmas, denominations etc. I'd like to join one of them. Quick, convert me, before another denomination converts me. The market of souls is a very dynamic market recently.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

It is a belief system with certain ountouchable dogmas, denominations etc.

What garbage. What are these "untouchable dogmas"? And where are these "denominations"? Atheism is simply a catch-all word for all philosophical positions that are without any belief in God or gods. End of story. It is not a "belief system" at all. Not even close.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

What garbage. What are these "untouchable dogmas"? And where are these "denominations"? Atheism is simply a catch-all word for all philosophical positions that are without any belief in God or gods End of story. It is not a "belief system" at all. Not even close.

Well, this isn't about the shortfalls of Atheism, but now that you asked. Just to mention a few Atheist dogmas:

• The universe is self-existing and self created.
• Morality is an artificial construct of humans - there is no transcendent moral standard
• Religion and religious belief/dogma is harmful to human development
• Religion is antithetical to reason
• Science is an authority
• You can only rationally believe in that which can be scientifically proven

[Tankbuster]

Well, this isn't about the shortfalls of Atheism, but now that you asked. Just to mention a few Atheist dogmas:

*chuckle*

[*]The universe is self-existing and self created.

What? No.

[*]Morality is an artificial construct of humans - there is no transcendent moral standard

Many would disagree.

[*]Religion and religious belief/dogma is harmful to human development

Few would argue that.

[*]Religion is antithetical to reason

This one is garbage as well.

[*]Science is an authority

No intelligent atheist will believe that.

[*]You can only rationally believe in that which can be scientifically proven

And this is one is total BS as well.

Geez. Those are surplus to requirements.


And here comes boofhead with his own:

How can atheism not be a belief system? How can any person's view of the world not be a belief system?

Atheism is not a 'view of the world'. It's a position on one issue.

Atheists believe that human sensory perception of external events is the be-all and end-all of all knowable reality.

Nope, we don't. Not by a long shot. In fact, I have a hard time naming a single one who would subscribe to that.

It's a belief system like any other world view. I guess it just hurts to hear a word atheists usually apply with utter derision to others applied to themselves.

When it's done without any basis, it makes me laugh, actually.


*eats more popcorn*
NEXT!

[Ragabash]

Well, this isn't about the shortfalls of Atheism, but now that you asked. Just to mention a few Atheist dogmas:

There are no dogmas in atheism as it's essentially mere absence of belief in god(s), not a creation myth or sociological theory. But let's not let all that get away and go ahead, discuss what ever you feel important; as long as you at least pretend to be actually interested I will try and respond the best I can.

• The universe is self-existing and self created.
• Morality is an artificial construct of humans-there is no transcendent moral standard.
• Religion and religious belief/dogma is harmful to human development.
• Religion is antithetical to reason
• Science is an authority
• You can only rationally believe in that which can be scientifically proven

• Not necessary but at the moment there are no better, simpler explanations (see Occam's razor).
• Moral standard stems from the social structure so it's just as artificial as our societies.
• It has been that several times, not always but more often than not.
• The very essence of religion, yes.
• It's just as much an authority as it was two thousand years ago.
• Rationality is objective, as is science, faith is all subjective on the other hand.

[Desperado †]

Well, this isn't about the shortfalls of Atheism, but now that you asked. Just to mention a few Atheist dogmas:

• The universe is self-existing and self created.
• Morality is an artificial construct of humans - there is no transcendent moral standard
• Religion and religious belief/dogma is harmful to human development
• Religion is antithetical to reason
• Science is an authority
• You can only rationally believe in that which can be scientifically proven

No, no, no. Those are simply traits atheists often tend to carry. The non-belief in a God or Gods (which is what atheism is) does not have to encompass any of those. And the last two are simply ridiculous - I could hold the scientific method of proving things to be completely wrong and still not believe in God.

PW, atheism is no more of a religion than believing in original sin is.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Well, this isn't about the shortfalls of Atheism,

Eh? What?

but now that you asked. Just to mention a few Atheist dogmas:

The universe is self-existing and self created.

Firstly, even for those atheists who accept this, it's not a "dogma". Look that word up. Secondly, this is not implicit in atheism in any way. Atheism is simply any position that is without a belief in God or gods. An atheist can believe that the universe is temporally eternal and has always existed and so was never "created" at all. Or they can believe it was created, but not by any God or gods. Fail number one.

Morality is an artificial construct of humans - there is no transcendent moral standard

Wrong again. Firstly, this is not a "dogma". Secondly, you can be an atheist and still believe in a transcendent moral standard - most Buddhists do so. Fail number two.

Religion and religious belief/dogma is harmful to human development

More twaddle. I'm very much an atheist and I don't believe religion is inherently harmful at all. And I argue vehemently against those atheists who do. So much for "dogma". Fail number three.

Religion is antithetical to reason

Utter garbage. Again, I acknowledge and respect those theists who have worked to establish their position via reason, eg Peter Abelard and Thomas Aquinas. I'm also part of an online community of theists and atheists who are devoted to the study of the historical relationship between religion and science and who vehemently oppose those anti-theists who claim the two have always been enemies. Fail number four.

Science is an authority

Garbage again. Science is simply a tool for examining the physical universe - something all intelligent atheists and theists agree on happily. Fail number five.

You can only rationally believe in that which can be scientifically proven

More nonsense. I can rationally believe in all kinds of things that are outside the parameters of science - that Thomas Tallis' Spem in Alium is a beautiful piece of music for example. Or that I love my girlfriend. Fail number six.

Congratulations PowerWizard, you have achieved a massive clusterfail. If the density of your failure was any greater it would implode.

Perhaps, if you don't want to have your ideas ripped apart like this, you should stick to whatever it is you do know about. That would be smarter.

[GuineaPig]

Seriously though, PW, provide reasons why you believe in a god(s) and this discussion can go on.

[Gaidin]

There are no dogmas or denominations. Stop comparing atheism to religion. It doesn't work.

[Yosemite]

There are no dogmas or denominations. Stop comparing atheism to religion. It doesn't work.

just like how you can't put all religions and religious people in the same bag, dealing with religion like that does not work and only leads to a waste of time

[Gaidin]

just like how you can't put all religions and religious people in the same bag, dealing with religion like that does not work and only leads to a waste of time

Umm, what? All I said was atheism isn't a religion or a belief system and shouldn't be characterized as such. How do you go from that to talking about such an obvious idea as how various religions are different from each other?

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Very weak efforts so far.

[Pious Agnost]

Stop being so pretentious.

It's clear you've ruled out Atheism from the start.

[Ummon]

See? You are not converted? You must be evil, biased, or whatever. Does it ring any bell?

[Pious Agnost]

It is a belief system with certain ountouchable dogmas, denominations etc. I'd like to join one of them. Quick, convert me, before another denomination converts me. The market of souls is a very dynamic market recently.

Totally not biased

[redxavier]

What's the point of this thread exactly? It's pretty clear that you aren't seriously considering a 'conversion' and just want to stick your pitch fork into your misconceived strawman notions of atheism.

[Tankbuster]

The thread completely fails for the very simple reason that it attempts to put the burden of proof on the atheist.

What did you expect, PW? That somebody was going to try to prove that God didn't exist or something?

An atheist is simply someone who finds the present cases for God unconvincing and unsatisfying. The onus of proof is therefore always on the theist, since he apparently does think he has a convincing case.

So over to you. What is this convincing case you think you have to sustain a theistic belief? We'll go get some popcorn.

[Pious Agnost]

He's right you know.

Page 3 of the Atheist Bible