Units Tiring

[Deathchant]

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about how quickly units tire. I am rather limited in my opinions having only played a Mordor campaign and being many turns into a Gondor one but i am finding that my Gondor units are tiring irritatingly fast.... i had some archers on a wall of a castle, they fired off less than half their ammo, did not move from their position and were 'exhausted' by the time i led them back to the next wall....

Similar things with Spearmen, they are Fresh, move very little distance, fight nobody and then they too are 'exhausted'

Am i being picky ? is this something that has already been discussed? or is it a balancing factor ?

Regards

[The Doge of Venice]

Gondor units have really bad stamina which i disagree with, you can raise it for each unit in the edu (text file with all units listed).
I units stamina is in it's description where it says "good stamina" or "very good stamina" if it says nothing it's normal which is actually pretty bad.

[Ranger of Ithilien]

i agree.. they should have more stamina.... but not much more cuz the yhave all that armor

[The Doge of Venice]

They are heavily trained and there armour isn't that heavy, and the more you train in heavy armour the better you are at moving in it and more fit you are.

[Ranger of Ithilien]

i see ur point..they were vary strong and trained... but they can't have mor stamina than elves for example or the guys from rohan

[The Doge of Venice]

Not more then elves and rohirrim are mostly horse riders and unused to walking much and chain mail is extremely heavy plus they are more well trained militia like then the professional soldiers of Gondor.

[zorro59]

I understand that they are heavy but the militia can get tired after 300 m (aprox) and the gondor archers (heavy) can run 2-3 times more and dont get so tired....

[NewUser]

I like it the way they are...

[Warmaster Tibs]

It makes me wonder why the Dwarves have so much stamina not to tire in battle.

[Mune]

As mentioned the heavy armor of Gondor makes a difference when it comes to their endurance. What you describe certainly seems a bit overboard though.

A few tips I can think of when it comes to keeping your units from tiring too quickly:

1) Always turn 'Run' mode off whenever you aren't wanting them to actually run. For example, if you charge a unit of men at the enemy, turn off run mode (hit R) after they clash with the enemy (otherwise they stay in run mode and tire more quickly)
2) Keep units in reserve rather than using them all at once. For example, if you have two units of militia swordsmen, have one engage and one behind doing nothing. When the unit which is fighting reaches 'Winded', then have your other unit come up to the fight. Once the Fresh unit is engaged with the enemy, send the Winded one back to rest.
3) I find that units recover their endurance more quickly the less tired they are. By which I mean, it takes less time to go from 'Winded' to 'Warmed Up' than it does to go from 'Tired' to 'Winded'. So try and let your units rest (when you can) whenever they reach Winded status.

Also, it seems that there are some bugs (vanilla ones, not TA:TW) relating to your units tiring when having them on the walls (or assaulting walls). If you have a unit move their position while on the walls, you'll notice that they never seem to fully stop moving (even when you tell them to Stop). I've seen units of men on the walls tire out while doing absolutely nothing (not moving, shooting or anything) because of this problem. Here's some things I've seen which seem to help with this problem:

1) Do not issue any commands to units which you have defending your walls. They seem to behave normally as long as they haven't had to do anything since being positioned on the wall during the pre-battle setup. If they're archers, then certainly you can have them shoot, but if melee then just let them sit there and have the enemy come to them.
2) After they clash with the attacking enemy (from their ladders or towers) issue the 'Stop' command to them every once in a while. You'll notice that as soon as one of their men start battling the enemy, the whole unit will start shifting around and tire them out quicker (it seems). Also, tell them to 'Stop' after the enemy retreats from the walls. Note that telling them to stop only seems to help somewhat, not completely.
3) If assaulting the walls, take note that they will automatically switch to 'Run' mode when the siege tower (and possibly ladders too, I'm not sure as I don't use them often) reaches the wall. To save their energy, switch them back to 'Walk' mode when this happens (they seem to move at the same speed anyway).

Hope this helps a bit. It seems that the whole endurance system needs some work, as it has a few quirks and bugs which they never bothered to fix (again, in Vanilla M2:TW, so thus all mods of it as well).

[Ranger of Ithilien]

a little question... who has more stamina dwarfs or men? (i think the dwarfs btw)...

[The Doge of Venice]

Dwarves for seem reason pretty much all have very high even though they have the heaviest armour in the game and by all physical means are stocky little people who shouldn't have much endurance, Gimli even quoted in the movie that Dwarves were great sprinters and terrible at long distance, if someone has some lore proof to say otherwise I'd love to see it.

[Ranger of Ithilien]

So the guys of gondor should have mor e stamina than the dwarfs

[Beregond]

Hail,Doge,nice to see you posting!

in fact Dwarves have the highest stamina of all races of MIddle Earth.The episode in the movies is a complete ***,cause in fact Gimli said in the books that Dwarves are better at long distances and do not get tired easily. So it was another PJ's lore-rape.

Sorry but the Two Towers is the only one book I don't have in English,so no quote

[The Doge of Venice]

Hail,Doge,nice to see you posting!

in fact Dwarves have the highest stamina of all races of MIddle Earth.The episode in the movies is a complete ***,cause in fact Gimli said in the books that Dwarves are better at long distances and do not get tired easily. So it was another PJ's lore-rape.

Sorry but the Two Towers is the only one book I don't have in English,so no quote

Yep I'm back these days since I'm not too busy in RL. Thanks for the clear up, I had a distinct feeling PJ had messed something up again, I'm srill unsure whether that would be accurate to say of all elves, though, but I really like Elves

[Mythre]

The stamina of the Gondorian units does need to be increased, especially on elite units.
Although be ware of the environment you fight in. I noticed that in Mordor (or whenever the sky is red), units that were heavily armored (I.E. Gondor spearmen and above) have a constant fatigue drain on them and will NEVER regenerate fatigue no matter how much you rest them. This makes fighting in Mordor very tricky as Gondor.

[mil0]

What is the stat reduction per each level of tiredness? Is it severe enough to warrant reserves? Gathering my own anecdotal evidence, I always thought it was best to just engage all my units, and hopefully by the time they're exhausted most of the enemy would be fleeing anyway

[HAL-9000]

On the Dwarven stmina debate, to me the book seems clearly to indicate that Dwarves have the best stamina of all races on Middle Earth. Allow me to quote:

"But they go with a great speed for all that," said Aragorn, "and they do not tire. And later we may have to search for our path in hard bare lands."
"Well, after them!" said Gimli. "Dwarves too can go swiftly, and they do not tire sooner than Orcs. But it will be a long chase: they have a long start."
"Yes," said Aragorn, "we shall all need the endurance of Dwarves".

This suggests to me that neither Aragorn or Legolas have as high endurance as the Dwarves, hence "we shall all need" their endurance, 'we' being the trio or Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. What elves do have, however, is the ability to 'sleep' while still walking and watching.

[zorro59]

" Gimli said in the books that Dwarves are better at long distances and do not get tired easily"
I thought that he sayd that dwarves are very dangerous across small distances.....

[vallu751]

In the books, wasn't it Aragorn who was having trouble keeping up with Legolas and Gimli? The movie depiction of dwarves is way off from the books. Gimli was made into a comic sidekick.