Dershowitz says Palestinian masses shared role in the holocaust.

[Ebusitanus]

Articles like these suggest to me that people like Dershowitz are getting desparate for arguments and are clinging for dear life to this tool:

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/dershowi..._s_new_culture

People are aware of the "Mufti" but he takes it further into a sort of collective reponsibility thing (which applies to palestinians today, also) that he would be "horrified" to see applied to jews, of course.

The conclusion that is supposed to follow from this "fact" is that the establishment of Israel in the wake of the Nazi genocide of the Jewish people was unfair to the Palestinians. Central to this claim is that neither the Palestinian people nor their leadership bore any responsibility for the Holocaust, and if any reparations are owed the Jewish people, it is from Germany and not from the Palestinians. The propounders of this historical argument suggest that the West created the Jewish state out of guilt over the Holocaust. It might have been understandable if a portion of Germany (or Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, France, Austria, or other collaborator nations) had been allocated for a Jewish homeland - but why Palestine? Palestine, according to this claim, was as much a "victim" as were the Jews.

I hear this argument on university campuses around the United States, and even more so in Europe.

The truth is that the Palestinian leadership, supported by the Palestinian masses, played a significant role in Hitler's Holocaust.

[nopasties]

Articles like these suggest to me that people like Dershowitz are getting desparate for arguments and are clinging for dear life to this tool:

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/dershowi..._s_new_culture

People are aware of the "Mufti" but he takes it further into a sort of collective reponsibility thing (which applies to palestinians today, also) that he would be "horrified" to see applied to jews, of course.

I've lost most of my respect for Jewish intellectuals for reasons like this. This is written for an internal audience of course but the holocaust 'mobius strip' has exhausted my sympathy. There is actual genocide going on today but these people choose to monopolize the martyr position for how long?

[Downey]

I've lost most of my respect for Jewish intellectuals for reasons like this.

Basing an entire people off of a few is pretty ignorant. Thats like calling all Muslims terrorists.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Q:

Haha brilliant. Where are all those Israelis who were telling me just a few days ago and for the last few days that ''no one plays the holocaust card''?

A:

To be fair to the Israeli's, this has nothing to do with them. This is an American Jewish academic giving his take, not any Israeli, or Israeli official.

And very few in Israel plays Holocaust card. Except for the likes of (see below)

Lieberman is a cock. Always was one.

Well I guess OK, the Israeli government can be blamed for this BS.

If it is indeed true, I should despise Natanyahu and his government just for giving you this reason
Oh, wait... I have many more other reasons to dislike him.

Off-topic
I find this trend of many Jews who don't live in Israel being more Israeli (being more concerned about Israel than we are, in their interpratation of course) very similar to the Irish Americans. Just a general observation.

[Каие]

Off-topic
I find this trend of many Jews who don't live in Israel being more Israeli (being more concerned about Israel than we are, in their interpratation of course) very similar to the Irish Americans. Just a general observation.

I absolutely agree. It's the cult of personality syndrome.

[nopasties]

Basing an entire people off of a few is pretty ignorant. Thats like calling all Muslims terrorists.

You are right to call me out on that sentence. It was lazily constructed and reactive.

[Ebusitanus]

Quite related in theme to the starting post. Clever way to try to undermine Palestinian outrage over the building expansion in eastern Jerusalem.

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...56L69K20090722

Israel circulates Hitler photo to battle critics

Allyn Fisher-Ilan

Jul 22, 2009

JERUSALEM - Israel has ordered its diplomats to use an old photograph of a former Palestinian religious leader meeting Adolf Hitler to counter world criticism of a Jewish building plan for East Jerusalem.

Israeli officials said on Wednesday Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israeli ambassadors to circulate the 1941 shot in Berlin of the Nazi leader seated next to Haj Amin al-Husseini, the late mufti or top Muslim religious leader in Jerusalem.

One official said Lieberman, an ultranationalist, hoped the photo would "embarrass" Western countries into ceasing to demand that Israel halt the project on land owned by the mufti's family in a predominantly Arab neighborhood in East Jerusalem.

Israel captured East Jerusalem in 1967, annexing it as part of its internationally unrecognized claim to Jerusalem as its capital.

Some diplomats opposed Lieberman's move, arguing it could earn Israel stiffer world criticism for seeming to sidestep the wider conflict it faces with the Palestinians who want East Jerusalem as capital of a future state, another official said.

Asked why Lieberman issued the order, a spokesman said: "because it's important for the world to know the facts" and would not elaborate.

The United States and Europe this week protested the plan by private Israeli developers to build 20 apartments on the land which Israel says was bought by an American-Jewish millionaire as well as Israel's threats to demolish Palestinian homes that could leave thousands homeless.

The controversy has complicated an Israeli rift with the U.S. over its refusal to meet President Barack Obama's demands to halt Jewish settlement building throughout the West Bank so that stalled peace talks may resume.

About half a million Israelis live in the settlements built in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, areas that are home to some three million Palestinians.

An official in Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's government accused Lieberman of "political bankruptcy" in ordering the distribution of the Husseini-Hitler photograph.

"It's an old story that has its own circumstances and doesn't apply to the present," Adnan al-Husseini, the Palestinian Authority-appointed governor of Jerusalem, and a relative of the late mufti, told Reuters.

Israel's Yad Vashem memorial to the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust said Husseini supported Nazi Germany to try to win backing for Arab nationalistic goals and that he lobbied for the extermination of Jews in North Africa and Palestine.

[ivan_the_terrible]

France and Poland were collaborator nations?

Wow.

[Каие]

Haha brilliant. Where are all those Israelis who were telling me just a few days ago and for the last few days that ''no one plays the holocaust card''?

[Dick]

Some Jews also "supported/enabled/encouraged" the Holocaust, one of many facts conveniently ignored in what is quite clearly a politically blindfolded argument.

[Gromovnik]

They're maybe playing the holocaust card, but they're not lying...

[Каие]

The majority of what he says is a lie. The entire article is based on this grand delusion of historical revisionism in which he basically blames the Palestinians for the Holocaust, from execution, to planning it, to coming up with the idea, to persuading Hitler to showing the Nazis how to do it. Complete nonsense.



1. Husseini was never the ''official leader of the Palestinians'' -Sir Herbert Samuel and Sir Alan Cunnigham were. Husseini was the Mufti of Jerusalem, who happened to belong to one of the most powerful clan/tribe. It was never an official position.

2. He misrepresents the military role of Palestinians in WW2 by somehow completely ignoring the 6,000 man strong Arab legion, raised in Palestine and Syria and winning decisive victories which stopped the Axis getting control of Palestine.

3. Hitler did not start to exterminate the Jews after Husseini persuaded him. Husseini did not advise them on how to do so either. Both the final solution, the camps and the way in which it was to be done were set up long before Husseini popped up, and were done without him.

4. The war in 1948 was not genocidal war aimed at exterminating the Jews. That war was led by the British Army for god's sake. In essence he's accusing the British of aiding Holocaust round 2. A pretty bold claim. The war of 1948 was always aimed only at making sure Jerusalem and the West Bank fell into Jordanian hands. Western Palestine was long lost.

5. He repeats the age old retardation which blames ''the Left, Iran and Hamas'' for changing everything and somehow burying this ''fact'' in which basically the Palestinians were responsible for the whole holocaust, from persuading Hitler, to planning it, to executing it, to actually going round Europe and rounding them up. It's absurd.

6. The UN, in 1947, did not offer Palestinians a state with ''more than half of the land''. 55% of the land in the partition plan went to the Jewish state, despite them owning less than 7%. The partition plan was actually rejected by the British as it was fundamentally idiotic.

[Generaal Van Heutsz]

6. The UN, in 1947, did not offer Palestinians a state with ''more than half of the land''. 55% of the land in the partition plan went to the Jewish state, despite them owning less than 7%. The partition plan was actually rejected by the British as it was fundamentally idiotic.

The palistinians, did get their state, with over 90% of the land, it's called Jordan but they wanted even more.

[Generaal Van Heutsz]

Articles like these suggest to me that people like Dershowitz are getting desparate for arguments and are clinging for dear life to this tool:

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/dershowi..._s_new_culture

People are aware of the "Mufti" but he takes it further into a sort of collective reponsibility thing (which applies to palestinians today, also) that he would be "horrified" to see applied to jews, of course.

Well, it is of course the palestinians who started this whole nazi comparison deal, what comes around goes around besides after all, aafter the koran "Mein Jihad" is the best sold book in the palestinian territories.*

[Каие]

God, please don't insult my intelligence.

[Francebunkerer]

The point relies on generalisation AND events (i.e. the meeting) which were supposed to have happened before, I'm guessing here, 99% of the involved people of today's conflict were born. Why does this not convince me?

[Hiero of Syracuse]

Ah man, why Israel after I defended you, you do this? Ah well it was bound to happen sooner or later they always act like children.

[Каие]

Ah man, why Israel after I defended you, you do this? Ah well it was bound to happen sooner or later they always act like children.

To be fair to the Israeli's, this has nothing to do with them. This is an American Jewish academic giving his take, not any Israeli, or Israeli official.

[nopasties]

To be fair to the Israeli's, this has nothing to do with them. This is an American Jewish academic giving his take, not any Israeli, or Israeli official.

He is on the edge of the debate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dershowitz

It still sickens me how much they exploit these 60 year old issues to justify current actions.

[Ebusitanus]

To be fair to the Israeli's, this has nothing to do with them. This is an American Jewish academic giving his take, not any Israeli, or Israeli official.

Unless the link is wrong, Reuters seems to indicate that the Mufti story is also being distributed via Israeli diplomats/ambassadors.

Israeli officials said on Wednesday Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israeli ambassadors to circulate the 1941 shot in Berlin of the Nazi leader seated next to Haj Amin al-Husseini, the late mufti or top Muslim religious leader in Jerusalem.

One official said Lieberman, an ultranationalist, hoped the photo would "embarrass" Western countries into ceasing to demand that Israel halt the project on land owned by the mufti's family in a predominantly Arab neighborhood in East Jerusalem.