I wonder why nobody brought up this

**Spartaaaa** · July 27, 2009, 09:48 PM

link:http://www.lourdes-water.org/water/lourdewater.html

link:http://www.christusrex.org/www1/apparitions/pr00011.htm

**88MPH** · July 27, 2009, 09:55 PM

I can think of any number of reasons why nobody would have brought that up.

**Watchman** · July 27, 2009, 09:59 PM

lol wut

**Taiji** · July 28, 2009, 07:04 AM

That second one in particular is pretty funky. People curing themselves happens all the time, even without the placebo. But it's not often that 70k people watch something and decide it was a miracle. Mass hysteria? Could be. A real phenomena but misinterpreted by the audience? Could be. Aliens? Could be. A god that also made the universe and is written about in the bible? Now you're pushing it but yeah, could be.

**TWoxy** · July 28, 2009, 08:10 AM

Ha, that's nothing compared to:

**Buddhababe** · July 28, 2009, 12:00 PM

Have you ever stared at the sun? Ohhh, the sun danced. It would be how our eyes and brain tried to interpret the stimuli. How is that a miracle? Just more "Our Lady of Fatima" nonsense.

**~~Ummon~~** · July 28, 2009, 12:05 PM

Priests do eat. The alternative (other religions have taken that road) is living off alms.

**Spartaaaa** · July 28, 2009, 08:15 PM

If it wont kill you would you please not downright insult another persons religion. And you could argue well you have to be an idiot to believe something like tha where i could say you have to be an idiot to NOT beleive something like that.

**Watchman** · July 28, 2009, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Spartaaaa

...where i could say you have to be an idiot to NOT beleive something like that.

You could, certainly. But that'd just make people point and laugh at you.

**Claudius Gothicus** · July 28, 2009, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Spartaaaa

If it wont kill you would you please not downright insult another persons religion. And you could argue well you have to be an idiot to believe something like tha where i could say you have to be an idiot to NOT beleive something like that.

Your avatar is making me confuse you with Chaigidel...

Insulting religions is a basic sustain to free speech, now I don't like insulting others people's beliefs but really we live in supposedly secular societies where freedom is well regarded so he has a right to insult your/others people religions as much as he wants.

**CtrlAltDe1337** · July 29, 2009, 12:26 PM

I think its funny that people discount something that is documented and seen by 70,000 people, then turn around and ask for signs that spiritual stuff exists

Mind you I don't think this was of God, but something different.

**Avendiel** · July 29, 2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDe1337

I think its funny that people discount something that is documented and seen by 70,000 people, then turn around and ask for signs that spiritual stuff exists

Mind you I don't think this was of God, but something different.

If you asked people from certain ancient cultures to prove the existence of a divine sun god, they would point to the sky and look at you funny.

The point is: people don't always see what they think they see. And lots of people making a mistake are no more credible than one person making a mistake.

**Frédéric Chopin** · July 29, 2009, 03:06 PM

Many people saw something "miraculous;" however, many others, including believers, saw nothing at all. Also, to see the sun appear to behave that way and immediately conclude that God is causing it is a rather thoughtless approach. There is a completely rational explanation for the "miracle of the sun": it was a mock sun. This explanation is consistent with what is described by witnesses and is far more likely than "spiritual stuff."

**ThiudareiksGunthigg** · July 29, 2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Frédéric Chopin

Many people saw something "miraculous;" however, many others, including believers, saw nothing at all. Also, to see the sun appear to behave that way and immediately conclude that God is causing it is a rather thoughtless approach. There is a completely rational explanation for the "miracle of the sun": it was a mock sun. This explanation is consistent with what is described by witnesses and is far more likely than "spiritual stuff."

Until recently there was a guy who led a sect of the Catholic Church in a city south of Sydney who called himself "the Little Pebble" and who claimed to see visions of the Virgin Mary. His followers regularly saw "the miracle of the Sun" as well, often a hundred of them at a time. Of course, like the people at Fatima they (i) were all devout Catholics of the kind who are obsessed with miracles of this kind, (ii) went out to the place where "the Little Pebble" saw his visions expecting to see something, (iii) fasted and prayed themselves into a mystical state beforehand and (iv) stared into the frigging sun (!!!). And they saw "something". Wow, what a surprise.

As time went by "the Little Pebble" and his sect started getting more and more unorthodox. He called his group the "Order of St Charbel" and began to refer to himself as "Pope Peter II the Roman". Even though "the Little Pebble"/William Kamm claimed to be a priest, he also declared that celibacy no longer applied to him (the Virgin Mary conveniently told him so) and he took 84 "mystical wives". HIs attitude to one of these "wives" soon became more physical than mystical and, since the "wife" in question was a 15 year old girl, Kamm/"Mr Pebble" is now doing 10 years in prison for aggravated sexual assault.

So if what the people at Fatima saw was a "miracle", how do believers explain the followers of this deluded child rapist seeing the same thing?

**Claudius Gothicus** · July 29, 2009, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg

As time went by "the Little Pebble" and his sect started getting more and more unorthodox. He called his group the "Order of St Charbel" and began to refer to himself as "Pope II the Roman". Even though "the Little Pebble"/William Kamm claimed to be a priest, he also declared that celibacy no longer applied to him (the Virgin Mary conveniently told him so) and he took 84 "mystical wives". HIs attitude to one of these "wives" soon became more physical than mystical and, since the "wife" in question was a 15 year old girl, Kamm/"Mr Pebble" is now doing 10 years in prison for aggravated sexual assault.

Adoration of Mary should be declared a heresy by the CC, many Catholics pray more to her than to Jesus or the Holy Ghost etc, I tell you in Argentina people pray more to the "virgencita" or "Los Santos" than God who 'has' the 'real power' to make their wishes true...

**familyguy1** · July 29, 2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus

Adoration of Mary should be declared a heresy by the CC, many Catholics pray more to her than to Jesus or the Holy Ghost etc, I tell you in Argentina people pray more to the "virgencita" or "Los Santos" than God who 'has' the 'real power' to make their wishes true...

Isnt it Sicilians that only pray to Mary..or something like that?

**Claudius Gothicus** · July 29, 2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by familyguy1

Isnt it Sicilians that only pray to Mary..or something like that?

Not only Sicilians a grand majority of catholics, especially in Spain, Italy and South America. Of course that they also believe in Jesus and stuff but for many of them the Mary thing has gone too far... well I guess Catholicism will reverting to a goddess kind of cult, replace Artemis by Mary and you're done