Troll idea

[Korsan82]

Many words said about trolls overpowered but no official response yet...

I have a different idea: Is it possible to add amok to trolls?
It should work like this:
-when trolls lose some units they go amok and hit around everything they can catch, even their own troops
-when trolls encounter hero regiments (aragorn, legolas.. in 1.2) with high morale their own moral should be breakable very easy
-when trolls encounter generals with a high fear rate they should be easily frightened

in general it should be like this: When trolls are left alone without normal regiments they should fight with a far worse morale and they should be easy break

leave stats as it is, just add this because trolls are tamed by mordor with wardens and stuff. They still are wild creatures which when left alone should ask themselves why they are fighting

[el Cid]

Well that Olog-Hai at the Black gate wasn't so afraid of Aragorn now was he?

It is not possible to make them rout, as they can't rout. So it won't be possible to make them rout when they encounter a hero or a high-fear general. And running amok isn't an option either, because they would run amok as soon as they are surrounded and that's what they do, they surround themselves.

Seriously, it's not so hard to kill trolls. I wish people would stop suggesting trying to weaken them.
If you really have so much trouble with trolls, read one of the 85458734985734985 guides on how to kill them.

But IMO they should be classed as heavy cavalry because:
1. They can now just run through stakes.
2. They can now stand on walls.
3. Can they use siege equipment? If so, it would solve this too.
4. Spearmen would be a good counter against them.

[Finnduil]

Trolls are ridiculously powerful when compared to any other units in the game.

[el Cid]

And that is how it should be.

[Soul Firez]

i agree they are powerfull now and thats how they should be (they are trolls LOL) and well they will smash through normal troops and they should be able to

As for making them cav there is problems to that in that they AI will use them very differently ( they will use them as cav and not the heavy infantry shock troops they are), i believe they are working on ways around the being able to get on walls in other ways ,turning them to cav would be detremental to there behaviour on the battle field when the ai usues them .

[el Cid]

^^
Yes I also thought about that, though IMO it would only make the AI use them for flanking. Is it possible to change it so that they will be used as HI?

[P|A|ntZ]

2. They can now stand on walls.

Seriously, what's the problem with trolls standing on walls? The only strange-looking thing is the size of the doorways in the walls, but just suspend your disbelief for a half second. Trolls absolutely should still be allowed to stand on walls.

Climbing ladders ... maybe not so much.

[Koljan]

Shopuld give them an invisiable battering ram. that way they are still classed as infantry, but are restricted to walking and not running, cannot climb walls and cannot use other siege gear.

invisible siege gear 4tw.

[desean]

only things that sux about trolls is the fact that they can use ledders :/ makes them unstopabble in walls

[Korsan82]

I can't understand the people that say Trolls are fine as they are now. This still is a computer game in which you need to balance things.
All units have their own weaknesses but Trolls. You always keep saying "they are like they should be".. Are trolls also invincible to arrows? How come 12 regiments of archers shooting at them and not a single one dies?
I know they can easily killed by cavalry in back with some militias blocking them but tell me about other units that need to attract so many attackers to get down?
I mean the stack size is 12! They kill HUNDREDS! That's not like it should be no matter what you say.

As for the morale idea: I remember my badass Turkish Troops running from Timurid generals. Can't it be handled like this? they should not run in terror but fight with lower morale and it should take less effort to make them route.
A troll near to death should also run amok or at least he should when some of his mates are down.

[Warmaster Tibs]

I can't understand the people that say Trolls are fine as they are now. This still is a computer game in which you need to balance things.
All units have their own weaknesses but Trolls. You always keep saying "they are like they should be".. Are trolls also invincible to arrows? How come 12 regiments of archers shooting at them and not a single one dies?
I know they can easily killed by cavalry in back with some militias blocking them but tell me about other units that need to attract so many attackers to get down?
I mean the stack size is 12! They kill HUNDREDS! That's not like it should be no matter what you say.
They should kill HUNDREDS, theryre giant ing monsters!
As for the morale idea: I remember my badass Turkish Troops running from Timurid generals. Can't it be handled like this? they should not run in terror but fight with lower morale and it should take less effort to make them route.
Counter with high command/chiv generals.I also think it is rather realistic, I am sure most soldiers would run from someone so terrifying as the Timurid Generals are.
A troll near to death should also run amok or at least he should when some of his mates are down.
The entire unit would have the freek out. Also I think they would go amok to easy because they become surrounded so easly because of how deep they charge formations and get swarmed.

[Jean=A=Luc]

-when trolls lose some units they go amok and hit around everything they can catch, even their own troops

Just add 'can_run_amok' to the trolls' attributes line in the export_descr_unit file.

-when trolls encounter hero regiments (aragorn, legolas.. in 1.2) with high morale their own moral should be breakable very easy

Not possible. Some "heroes" (typically evil ones though) can get an ability that lowers morale but it affects all units equally.

-when trolls encounter generals with a high fear rate they should be easily frightened

Same as above. You can't make fear have a special affect on trolls nor would it make much sense from a "realism" perspective.

in general it should be like this: When trolls are left alone without normal regiments they should fight with a far worse morale and they should be easy break

Again as above. All units fight worse without a general that with one. You can't add special modifiers just for trolls.

[The Doge of Venice]

I agree with run amok but that's it, they should be pretty hard to make run amok like have the highest moral without it being locked and the run amok trait, if the berserk trait from rtw was still around I'd say to use that.

oh yes and I'd rather have them be used as cavalry by the ai then have them be able to climb ladders and towers which is very detrimental to the game although easily counterable if your defending by having a few units of your archers on the ground behind your walls shooting up at them.

[zorro59]

I think that they are overpowered.....
I guess that they should be able to be killed by strong speramen....
I like the idea of infantry, even if they use siege gear...
It is rather strange to see tham on ladders, but I dont really mind, the ai uses them really few times.....

[Finnduil]

They are way too overpowered imo, for example they can take tons of arrows. It doesn't make sense. I know they are trolls, and the mountain trolls are suitably challenging but Olog-Hai are just insane.

[The Doge of Venice]

look at the cost of an olog-hai, have you ever done any unit testing against them with identical costs? an infantry and charging cavalry against them will obliterate them if each side has same amount of money.

Oh and olog-hai have the vast majority of there bodies covered in armour so thick that it's invulnerable to any arrows at any range and at a distance there skin is thick enough to deflect or only take light damage from most arrows, try using catapults or ballista against them, they work pretty well.

[Louis Lux]

Trolls make the game more challenging, without them the player will just steamroll the orc factions. In my campaign I was expanding quite fast but when trolls appeared I had to give two settlements away and regroup to face them, with a well rounded stack you should be able to face an enemy with up to 4 units of mountain trolls.

[zorro59]

Yes, but today I fought an orc army with 6 (!!!!!!!!!!) olog hai...
I had a full stack of spearmen and archers, but i only killed 5-6...
I dont understard why should they be imune to arrows...
Legolas killed trolls in moria using arrows...
And he had just 1 bow...
1000 should beat the heck out of a troll, but neither at that scale you cant take one down...
edit: I dont hate the idea with trolls on the walls, especially if they wont be imune to arrows anymore...

[Louis Lux]

Yes, but today I fought an orc army with 6 (!!!!!!!!!!) olog hai...
I had a full stack of spearmen and archers, but i only killed 5-6...
I dont understard why should they be imune to arrows...
Legolas killed trolls in moria using arrows...
And he had just 1 bow...
1000 should beat the heck out of a troll, but neither at that scale you cant take one down...
edit: I dont hate the idea with trolls on the walls, especially if they wont be imune to arrows anymore...

Well... That's your problem right there, you are fighting an army of olog-hai with archers and spearmen? Like the other guy said, for you to stand a chance you need heavy cavalry, axemen and javelin throwers, without any of these you're toast.

[Finnduil]

Well... That's your problem right there, you are fighting an army of olog-hai with archers and spearmen? Like the other guy said, for you to stand a chance you need heavy cavalry, axemen and javelin throwers, without any of these you're toast.

Lmao, i have none of those as silvans!