Interactive Map Guide version 1

[Admiral Piett]

If I were you guys, I'd definitely remove the Papacy. It bears no significance militarily. Only of course religiously and politically. Since Total War is primarily a military representation, I believe it should be the aim to go for what is militarily important. Instead, it should be a rebel province and a major control point. If someone invades Rome, then nearly all Catholic factions should declare war on that faction and owning it should have major advantages as well as major disadvantages.

I should also argue that Syria, although an immensely important region economically and militarily, was not an independent state in technical terms. It was throughout most of this time period occupied by distant Islamic regimes that were not situated in Syria itself. Just before the time of the mod, the Fatimids seized Syria from the Hamdanid dynasty. Also, the later Ayyubid dynasty also controlled Syria from Cairo.

[Hengest]

I beg to differ. The Papacy was an important military power in 1080 due to the Investiture Controversy, if you count Matilda as Papal which we will. The mod is certainly about politics, although you will probably only see real historical parallels in 1080 and then growing less through your campaign as your rewrite history more and more. The Papacy is the main political engine of Europe and is essential for any mod that includes Europe.
I think the majority of people are happy to have another Muslim faction in the mod.

[Hengest]

You do know that if you click on the settlements it brings up the names...?
These info boxes will later have additional info such as settlement info.

[SFS2008]

nice map
i am only missing the cities of syria
why is there a big hole without cities in the sahara. is this a region, that you can not conquer?
and why there are only cities in the delta of the nile (fustat misr,alexandria,dumyat) and of the top of the nile ( dongola), but no cities in the mid of nile?? This looks strange

[Admiral Piett]

Not many people choose to play the Papacy in mods and they have very limited military importance throughout the time frame of the mod. I mean really, their armies are just going to sit there and patrol back and forth. This is how it is in every mod.

I'm not really complaining about having more Muslim factions, I'm just saying that the nation of Syria in this time period seems rather ahistorical, imo. According to the maps I've seen Syria was broke up into three emirates - Atabeg of Mosul, Emirate of Aleppo, and the Emirate of Damascus and all three were subjects of the Egyptian dynasty.

[OdinX]

Most of that area will be dominated by PSFs; in the end it will be VERY much full. trust me.

[sumskilz]

why is there a big hole without cities in the sahara.

Odin was referring to the Nile and Syria; there really aren't cities in the Sahara.

According to the maps I've seen Syria was broke up into three emirates - Atabeg of Mosul, Emirate of Aleppo, and the Emirate of Damascus and all three were subjects of the Egyptian dynasty.

These were Seljuk territories that in the late 11th Century were independent in nearly all but name. The Atabeg of Mosul went on to found the Zengid dynasty in the early 12th Century; this is our Syria faction.

Not many people choose to play the Papacy in mods and they have very limited military importance throughout the time frame of the mod. I mean really, their armies are just going to sit there and patrol back and forth. This is how it is in every mod.

The Papacy really was a local military power for a lot of our time period, but perhaps more importantly, the papacy will also be used to represent the crusader states. This is one of the ways we are working around the faction limit.

[Admiral Piett]

The Papacy really was a local military power for a lot of our time period, but perhaps more importantly, the papacy will also be used to represent the crusader states. This is one of the ways we are working around the faction limit.

Hmm, well just in my opinion, I think the Papacy is a faction that could easily be sacrificed for something that is more important, such as the Crusader States without having the Pope directly control the Holy Lands.

I see what you mean about Syria, it's just that within a short period of time, that region was then absorbed into the Ayyubid Dynasty going back and forth from attempting to be independent and then attempting to restore the dynasty in Cairo. After the Ayyubids pretty much fell out, they were then absorbed by the Malmluks until the Mongol invasion. I figure if you're going to do a Muslim faction, it'd be the remainder of the Abbasids or perhaps Kwarazhem. But never the less, having another faction there does make things more interesting. It's in a unique location to provide greater difficulty for Latin Crusaders and give trouble to the two major Muslim powers.

[paradamed]

That map is awesome.So many cool factions included!

[Recon]

I like it. Overall good balance and great choice of cities. Although I don't see the great purpose of the three african cities e.i. Kano, Timbuktu and Koumbi Saleh - Not gamplay wise nor historically if I'm right. My opinion is that they are too isolated and secure from all the action on going in europe and they have no historical significance (?). I notice the coastline or maybe more the inland of the baltic and not to forget the Russian rivers looks a bit thin on cities. I think the possibiliti to relive the Reconquista and the Crusades in the Holy Land through DotS is there. But the rivalry against the wends, estonians and other pagans in the baltic region doesn't add much of a challenge nor reward through conquest of new land. I think they should have nearly the same amount of cities in the historical hot areas. How it is now...
Cities - Holy land: 14 +
Cities - Iberia/morocco: 13 +
Cities - Baltic crusades: 8 +

Add those african cities and we might have something even more relevant and challenging in my opinion.


And last what about Island for the sake of curiosity? (not that I care much)


Looking forward seeing the position of the PSF's...

[sumskilz]

All good points Recon and they will be considered. There was a lot of discussion that went into the choices that were made, but being a newcomer to the mod I wasn't in on all of it. Sub-Saharan Africa was important in this period for economic reasons but at the same time it was very much on the periphery politically/militarily. So what I'm saying is that I can see your point, but some of these things are still being considered and some may not be easily changed. This is however your opportunity to express your opinions and we are listening.

When considering the Baltic, I have to wonder if the region really had the population density to justify an equal number of provinces to the holy land. If we went on known historical facts, it appears that it is the Iranian plateau that is under populated not the Baltic. Keep in mind though, that you will not really be seeing the full picture until we are able to release the PSF version of the map. Thanks for the interest and the feedback.

[Woden]

Will be Iceland in the game?
I assume that Greenland will not be in.
But Iceland starting as rebel trying to avoid the will of the Norway King to control the island would be very cool.

Remember Snorri Sturluson!!!

[Resurrection]

Will be Iceland in the game?
I assume that Greenland will not be in.
But Iceland starting as rebel trying to avoid the will of the Norway King to control the island would be very cool.

Remember Snorri Sturluson!!!

Iceland is in and it falls under Island region with capital of Kirkwall under Norway's control. This does not mean all PSFs on Iceland will be under Norway's control of course.

[Woden]

Iceland is in and it falls under Island region with capital of Kirkwall under Norway's control. This does not mean all PSFs on Iceland will be under Norway's control of course.

Great news.

[Recon]

Iceland is in and it falls under Island region with capital of Kirkwall under Norway's control. This does not mean all PSFs on Iceland will be under Norway's control of course.

It would be wrong to let Iceland fall under the island of Orkney, Kirkwall. If anything then the royal seat of Norway. Rebel PSF or not.

As for the baltic.. Damn it you guys always have a good answer to everything - please consider Ladoga though.

[daryush]

Looks really good, but I think perhaps you could add a few more in Iran. It looks a bit ... empty ....

Other than that, it's really good

[Hengest]

Ok... some interesting points of view and debait here.

Papacy, will not be playable but are essential to the engine and the European factions, we are also using them to represent the Crusader States. If we were to make the Papacy rebel then there would be nothing to stop Catholic factions taking over the settlement however they chosed, also the settlement would have no significance beyond a mere title 'Pope', which would have no function. Whilst including the Papacy we can offer features such as protection to Catholic rebel settlements, since too much expansion at the expense of indepdent Catholic states (rebels) can get a faction excommunicated. This helps to allow dynamics and tension in Europe and encourages expansion outside of Europe itself.

Baltics We think that we are representing the Baltics exceptionally well in a mod which has the range we have. Don't forget that what you are seeing is only the settlements, we are going to be showing you hundreds of PSFs which represent medieval towns, cities, castles, monasteries etc as the map develops. The settlements represent not only control points but points of population production, places where armies can be produced. With that in mind, the Baltics which were very sparsely populated compared to the Middle East of southern Europe is very failry portrayed.

Basel and Augsburg As we said in the opening post, some details are opent o change as we develop research in the light of gameplay. Rheinfelden is our main reasoning for this start situation as you guessed. The Count of Rheinfelden's powerbase stretched to include Basel and as for Augsburg four anti-bishops were set up in opposition to Siegfried II over the period around the mod start date, it was extremely unstable for Imperial rule. Augsburg is also our settlement that represents the control over the Duchy of Swabia which was in fact also Rheinfelden's claim. Although in each case Rheinfelden asserted himself the Emperor had reciprocal claims and defences, it was Rheinfelden that was supported by the Pope as Emperor or 'anti-king' and it is this track we are following in representing those two settlements as rebel. It also presents an interesting situation for the HRE player since he must quash the rebellion, and unite his Italian possessions, enter Italy and deal with the Papal forces.

Africa our commitment to portraying the Middle East and near East Muslim world has meant that we wanted to include Mecca, the Yemen peninsula and the Suez which was extremely important to trade and transport. Inclduing this and the Steppe as well aspects such as Iceland (which we have wasted no settlements on, but given PSFs) allows us a vast range of the medieval world. While the southwestern African settlements were not important in themselves they were the fuel that in turn effected changes in the Moorish and Egyptian states which in themselves had huge impacts on Europe, both in trade, military possessions and territory as well as political domains. Portugal for instance, is likely to take an active role in the western African battleground. Playing the Moors or Egyptians you will not be only playing the same types of battles and campaigns as before, in previous mods either. Egypt will not just be contending with the Crusaders in Syria but with the Seljuks across the waters of the Yemen peninsula, they will also be likely to battle Moors, rebels and even Christian colonists in deepest Africa. The Moorish game will no longer be purely northward looking and obsessively and repetitively striking into Iberia. Iberia will be a battleground in itself however, with Aragaon, Portugal, France, Leon-Castille and even Italian states racing to take the rich rebel territories before clashing dramatically with the might of the superpower Moors.

This mod and the map has been extremely well thought out, researched and planned and when you see the PSFs and also begin to read more on the assets of each control point, both settlements and PSFs you will realise what a rich and in-depth game Dominion will be. We hope that you can trust and support us as we are now finishing the campaign map and starting to compile the Beta. It has been a long adventure, but one which is in fact drawing to a close. The long and steady build-up we have had, has now allowed us to bring to you an explosive series of events and activity here in the coming months.

[SorelusImperion]

I'd suggest changing Worms to Frankfurt. Frankfurt was the place where the King was elected and that it remained an important center of the Empire throughout the period. Worms should be represented as control point in my opinion.

Another important city would be Mainz. It may be worth considering to remove one other region adding the Archbishopric of Mainz instead. To free up the necessary Emilia may be removed with Ravenna becoming Papal territory. This would also serve to weaken the Empire's position in Italy a bit which also seems a little bit too strong and it would strengthen the economic potential of Germany itself.

Other than that I'll look forward to get a glimpse on the actual borders.

[Haertelius Magnus]

I'd suggest changing Worms to Frankfurt. Frankfurt was the place where the King was elected and that it remained an important center of the Empire throughout the period. Worms should be represented as control point in my opinion.
.

until 1531 they were nearly all crowned in Aachen...Frankfurt after 1562

[SorelusImperion]

until 1531 they were nearly all crowned in Aachen...Frankfurt after 1562

I specifically said "elected"