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  1. #1
    Ebusitanus's Avatar Senator
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    Default America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    A U.S. military 'at its breaking point' considers foreign recruits - Americas - International Herald Tribune

    WASHINGTON — The armed forces, already struggling to meet recruiting goals, are considering expanding the number of noncitizens in the ranks, including disputed proposals to open recruiting stations overseas and put more immigrants on a faster track to U.S. citizenship if they volunteer, according to Pentagon officials.

    Foreign citizens' serving in the U.S. military is a highly charged issue, which could expose the Pentagon to criticism that it is essentially using mercenaries to defend the country. Other analysts voice concern that a large contingent of noncitizens under arms could jeopardize national security or reflect badly on Americans' willingness to serve in uniform.

    The idea of signing up residents who are seeking U.S. citizenship is gaining traction as a way to address a critical need for the Pentagon, while fully absorbing some of the roughly one million immigrants that enter the United States legally each year.

    The proposal to induct more noncitizens, which is still largely on the drawing board, has to clear a number of hurdles. So far, the Pentagon has been quiet about specifics, like who would be eligible to join, where the recruiting stations would be, and what the minimum standards might involve, like English proficiency. In the meantime, the Pentagon and the immigration authorities have expanded a program that accelerates citizenship for legal residents who volunteer for the military.

    Since the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the number of immigrants in uniform who have become U.S. citizens has increased from 750 in 2001 to almost 4,600 last year, according to military statistics.

    With severe manpower strains because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a mandate to expand the overall size of the military, the Pentagon is under pressure to consider a variety of proposals involving foreign recruits, according to a military affairs analyst.

    "It works as a military idea and it works in the context of American immigration," said Thomas Donnelly, a military scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute in Washington and a leading proponent of recruiting more foreigners to serve in the military.

    As the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan grind on, the Pentagon has warned Congress and the White House that the military is stretched "to the breaking point."

    President George W. Bush and Robert Gates, his new defense secretary, have acknowledged that the size of the military must be expanded to help alleviate the strain on ground troops.

    That has led Pentagon officials to consider casting a wider net for noncitizens who are already in the United States, said Lieutenant Colonel Bryan Hilferty, an army spokesman.

    Already, the army and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement division of the Department of Homeland Security have "made it easier for green-card holders who do enlist to get their citizenship," Hilferty said. Other army officials, who asked not to be identified, said personnel officials were working with Congress and other parts of the government to test the feasibility of going beyond U.S. borders to recruit soldiers and marines.

    Currently, Pentagon policy stipulates that only immigrants legally residing in the United States are eligible to enlist. There are about 30,000 noncitizens who serve in the U.S. armed forces, making up about 2 percent of the active-duty force, according to statistics from the military and the Council on Foreign Relations. About 100 such noncitizens have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    A recent change in U.S. law, however, gave the Pentagon authority to bring immigrants to the United States if it determines it is vital to national security. So far, the Pentagon has not taken advantage of it, but the calls are growing to use this new authority.

    Some top military thinkers believe the United States should go as far as targeting foreigners in their native countries.

    "It's a little dramatic," said Michael O'Hanlon, a military specialist at the nonpartisan Brookings Institution and another supporter of the proposal. "But if you don't get some new idea how to do this, we will not be able to achieve an increase" in the size of the armed forces.

    Other nations recruit foreign citizens: In France, the famed Foreign Legion relies on about 8,000 noncitizens; and Nepalese Gurkhas have fought and died with British Army forces for two centuries.
    Read a napoleonic first hand account of a Hessian serving under the french flag

    Athenians: For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretenses - either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed;.......... since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    Part of the Melian Dialogue in The History of the Pelopenessian War by Thucydides.

  2. #2
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    The idea of foreigners in national militaries is both repulsive and a stroke of genius.
    You relieve the strain on nationals and get a suppply of people who are perfectly expendable, their parents don't vote.

    Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.

  3. #3
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Well they could follow Rome's example, Hire auxillaries and grant them citizenship after 21 years service. Also they would not serve in a conflict which involved their original homeland.
    There main role though would not be homeland defence ie United States mainland. But as shock troops in oversea,s adventures.

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    Ebusitanus's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Aditionally foreign soldiers have a lot less qualms about gunning down domestics than the natives do if needed.
    Read a napoleonic first hand account of a Hessian serving under the french flag

    Athenians: For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretenses - either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed;.......... since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    Part of the Melian Dialogue in The History of the Pelopenessian War by Thucydides.

  5. #5
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    They should just pay countries like Germany and France for sending their troops to Afghanistan.

    America would have more than enough allies, if there was profit in it.



  6. #6

    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    They should just pay countries like Germany and France for sending their troops to Afghanistan.

    America would have more than enough allies, if there was profit in it.
    Paying rich democratic countries to send troops isn't gonna work. You can try that with poor countries that have less qualms about casualties.
    Creating a Foreign Legion isn't exactly in the American spirit, but hey, if you're gonna get stuck in wars for decades, it might be worth a shot.

  7. #7

    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
    Paying rich democratic countries to send troops isn't gonna work. You can try that with poor countries that have less qualms about casualties.
    Creating a Foreign Legion isn't exactly in the American spirit, but hey, if you're gonna get stuck in wars for decades, it might be worth a shot.
    Depends on the price tag. For a trillion dollars even germany might become one of the "willing" if it helps to reduce the debt and build lots of kindergardens.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    I don't think any country has enough money to make Germany war happy again.

  9. #9

    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapax View Post
    I don't think any country has enough money to make Germany war happy again.
    thats what they said last time


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  10. #10
    B5C's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    US military has been doing this for years already. I like this plan. If a immigrant really wants to become a US citizen. They should fight and defend their new homeland as proof of their loyalty.

    “Nothing could be more dangerous to the existence of this Republic than to introduce religion into politics”

  11. #11

    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    US military has been doing this for years already. I like this plan. If a immigrant really wants to become a US citizen. They should fight and defend their new homeland as proof of their loyalty.
    u think that makes sense? what did "citizens" of US do to show their loyalty? crawling of their moms' pussies? that 's really tough work wow.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

  12. #12
    Praepositus
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Which century do we live in ?
    What happen to love humanity asylum ?
    Beatles Sex drugs and Rock roll.

  13. #13
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    "President George W. Bush and Robert Gates, his new defense secretary, have acknowledged that the size of the military must be expanded to help alleviate the strain on ground troops."

    Just saying... the article might be a bit dated.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  14. #14
    Hotspur's Avatar I've got reach.
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    "President George W. Bush and Robert Gates, his new defense secretary, have acknowledged that the size of the military must be expanded to help alleviate the strain on ground troops."

    Just saying... the article might be a bit dated.
    That would make this article at least two years old.

    I look forward to his next thread - "Scorsese finally wins Best Director Oscar."

  15. #15
    .......................
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Alternatively America could just reduce the NEED for a large army in the first place, I.E stop policing the world... just like any Business would when having supply problems.

  16. #16
    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Alternatively America could just reduce the NEED for a large army in the first place, I.E stop policing the world... just like any Business would when having supply problems.
    Why should America stop policing the world?
    Sigh...

  17. #17
    DekuTrash's Avatar Human Directional
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Aziel View Post
    Why should America stop policing the world?
    Well, I guess "First World" countries could do it themselves as they should.
    Some third world countries just need guidance



  18. #18
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Aziel View Post
    Why should America stop policing the world?
    police brutality. torture, rape and extra-judicial killings. Not exactly your friendly bobbie on the beat.

    edit: forgot to say planting evidence and theft too.

    edit2: they sound like the West Midlands Flying Squad.




  19. #19
    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    police brutality. torture, rape and extra-judicial killings. Not exactly your friendly bobbie on the beat.
    I don't really understand what you are refering to.

    Well, I guess "First World" countries could do it themselves as they should.
    That sure will convince Washington to give the throne up.
    Sigh...

  20. #20
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: America takes same path as Rome, hires foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by Aziel View Post
    I don't really understand what you are refering to.
    .
    not my problem sport.




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