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  1. #1
    nopasties's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default New Minimum Wage

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...mum-wage-hike/
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    July 24, 2009, 4:11 pm
    Who Is Affected by a Higher Minimum Wage?

    By Catherine Rampell Today the minimum wage rose to $7.25 from $6.55. Whom will it actually affect?
    First you must consider that not all states will be affected by today’s rate increase because they may already have a state minimum wage that is higher than the federal rate. When state and federal regulations differ, the higher of the two rates applies. According to the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal research group, 19 states and the District of Columbia previously had wages higher than the federal minimum.
    That leaves 31 states affected by the higher federal minimum wage: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
    In some states, like New York, the state law is automatically reset to equal the federal rate.
    Given all this, including the automatic increases in state minimum rates, here’s what the state laws now look like:
    Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics
    So how many workers will actually be affected?
    The Economic Policy Institute estimates that about 4.5 million employees, less than 4 percent of the labor force, will see a bump in their hourly wages. But not all of those affected will actually be minimum-wage earners. Let me explain.
    The bulk of these workers — about 2.8 million people — currently earn less than $7.25, and will receive an immediate raise. But the institute estimates that an additional 1.6 million workers earning slightly above the minimum will be “indirectly” affected because of “spillover effect” — businesses trying to preserve their wage structures.
    There are finely gradated pay scales in many markets. Let’s say a business, like a restaurant, employs both a minimum-wage worker — like a drive-through operator — and a slightly higher-skilled worker — let’s say a cook — who earns 25 cents above the minimum wage. When pay increases for the drive-through operator, the restaurant may decide to slightly raise the pay of the cook to keep the same hierarchy and wage structure.
    That pay raise may then have ripple effects. For example, raising the pay of the cooks at one restaurant with a drive-through may force other restaurants (even those without drive-throughs) to raise the pay of their cooks, in order to stay competitive.
    Even further down the line, raising the minimum wage may lead employers to pass on their additional labor costs in the form of higher prices, which can in turn (at least theoretically) lead to higher prices and wages across the board.
    So now that we understand the quantity of people who are being affected, what about the individual people themselves? Who earns the minimum wage?
    From a Bureau of Labor Statistics study based on 2008 data:
    • Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 11 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 2 percent of workers age 25 and over.
    • About 4 percent of women paid hourly rates had wages at or below the prevailing federal minimum, compared with about 2 percent of men. (Of minimum wage earners overall, 67 percent are women, and 33 percent are men.)
    • The percentage of workers earning the minimum wage did not vary much across the major race and ethnicity groups. About 3 percent of white, black, and Hispanic hourly-paid workers earned the federal minimum wage or less. Among Asian hourly paid workers, about 2 percent earned the minimum wage or less.
    • Among hourly paid workers age 16 and over, about 5 percent of those who had less than a high school diploma earned the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of those who had a high school diploma (with no college) and about 2 percent of college graduates.
    • Part-time workers (persons who usually work less than 35 hours per week) were more likely than their full-time counterparts to be paid the federal minimum wage or less (about 7 percent versus about 2 percent).
    • About 7 in 10 workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2008 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving related jobs.
    • Among the states, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee and Oklahoma had the highest proportions of hourly-paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage (about 6 percent). The percentage of workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage was lowest (1 percent or less) in Alaska, California and Oregon.



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  2. #2
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Minimum wage( any work on the construction biz ) in Norway: 120.00 NOK = 19.2293 USD / 8 hours pr day- More then that is 50% extra/after 9 o'clock, it's 100% extra. I think it's even more on sundays and some historical day's = standard.

    1 Word : unions(hehe, no not the mafia the real deal)

    About 12% of workers are unionized, compared to 30% in Western Europe(34% in Norway).[78] The World Bank ranks the United States first in the ease of hiring and firing workers.[79] Between 1973 and 2003, a year's work for the average American grew by 199 hours.[80] Partly as a result, the United States maintains the highest labor productivity in the world. However, it no longer leads in productivity per hour as it did from the 1950s through the early 1990s; workers in Norway, France, Belgium, and Luxembourg are now more productive per hour.[81]
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; July 25, 2009 at 02:06 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













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  3. #3

    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Minimum wage is idiotic. It drives prices up and prevent inexperienced workers from getting jobs. Whats the point of getting more money if the products you buy also get more expensive?


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  4. #4
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Minimum wage does nothing more than lay off people in the short term and increase prices in the long. Relatively long run anyhow.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    Minimum wage does nothing more than lay off people in the short term and increase prices in the long. Relatively long run anyhow.
    Nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordoftheT View Post
    You do realize that increasing wadges increases the cost of production right? Thus making the car more expensive.
    In the Ford example, productivity rose more (due to a happy workforce) than the cost of the wages.
    So Ford could actually produce cars cheaper after increasing wages.

    This is not always the case, of course.
    But there will always be a balance between low labor costs and productivity.

    I work a lot with Indians who work for nearly nothing.
    And I can tell you: they really don't care if the job gets done properly or not, and I can't blame them.
    Last edited by Erik; July 25, 2009 at 10:06 AM.



  6. #6

    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Minimum wage is idiotic. It drives prices up and prevent inexperienced workers from getting jobs. Whats the point of getting more money if the products you buy also get more expensive?
    Nonsense, go and work less than a dollar a day then, I don't call those jobs jobs in the first place. Ford Motor Company started paying its workers a normal wage, so they could afford to buy a car - a Ford car-.
    It made Henry Ford a millionaire, and gosh, all of a sudden others start tor realize that by paying workers a normal wage, you actually increase your market.

    On of the key problems in our western society these days is that people on minimum wage earn 20% less or more in net wages than around 1975, it has created a permanent underclass who have no way of escaping out of it through work. Have a stroll at any inner city in the States or bad neighbourhoods in Europe's cities for the results. The gap between the rich and poor is getting too wide. I would certainly not like to live in a society as in the Third World countries where people live on a dollar a day, the shoe polisher's economies with its rampant and appalling poverty. I'd rather pay a decent wage to someone working for me and earn less.
    Last edited by Gumpfendorfer; July 25, 2009 at 08:19 AM.

  7. #7
    lordoftheT's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordred View Post
    Nonsense, go and work less than a dollar a day then, I don't call those jobs jobs in the first place. Ford Motor Company started paying its workers a normal wage, so they could afford to buy a car - a Ford car-.
    It made Henry Ford a millionaire, and gosh, all of a sudden others start tor realize that by paying workers a normal wage, you actually increase your market.
    You do realize that increasing wadges increases the cost of production right? Thus making the car more expensive.

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by lordoftheT View Post
    You do realize that increasing wadges increases the cost of production right? Thus making the car more expensive.
    On paper yes but in reality no it doesn't. The vast majority of jobs that employ minimum wage or near minimum workers are the service industry, ala the guy flipping burgers at BK or the girl working the register at a Wal Mart, with the profit margins being as high as they are in the service industry the 10%-25% of workers that actually make what is below the new minimum in this sector will do little to inflict damage on their bottom line profits. Most production jobs, even the simple ones pay well above minimum wage due to the strength of the unions in that sector of the work force. Yes there are exceptions and there are a few companies that will either have to lay people off or raise the price of their goods but those will be few and far between, and if you're company is surviving simply because you paid everyone the minimum then you have some seriously flawed business practices. Again on paper yes this is bad, in reality this will have the same outcome the last five increases to the minimum wage have had, zero.

  9. #9
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Nonsense, go and work less than a dollar a day then, I don't call those jobs jobs in the first place. Ford Motor Company started paying its workers a normal wage, so they could afford to buy a car - a Ford car-.
    It made Henry Ford a millionaire, and gosh, all of a sudden others start tor realize that by paying workers a normal wage, you actually increase your market.
    Ouchhhhh, this made my head hurt.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    It's ok, americans don't need vacation like europeans, decent minimum wage, 1 job, be mentally happy like europeans, etc. b/c you are less productive pr hour then us.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  11. #11
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    employers could raise product prices to offset the cost. Probably will.

    However the current climate is going to spell disaster for many of these businesses. As demand for products, food and services are already down due to the recession. Raising prices will only make the situation worse.

    Minimum wage is linked strongly to a marked rise in inflation. Always has been. It has always been a very bad idea.

  12. #12

    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    People don't understand minimum wage.

    Minimum wage is for unions, and only unions.

    The higher the minimum wage for unskilled workers the higher the wage they can get for their skilled workers. Its a baseline for their bargaining.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    People don't understand minimum wage.

    Minimum wage is for unions, and only unions.

    The higher the minimum wage for unskilled workers the higher the wage they can get for their skilled workers. Its a baseline for their bargaining.
    The truth! (Less than 4% of the workforce will be affected by minimum the wage increase, including already making more than minimum wage.)
    The best way to reveal yourself for the attention mongering reality ignoring vanity ridden snot nosed beast that you are is by continuing to make those sweeping trendy but out of touch generalizations that you love so much. In case you were wondering.

  14. #14

    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    There is no need to discuss other members.

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Well I was going to quote JP's second statement about unemployment, Pontifex was just a little quicker to the delete then I was to reply.

    As for the statement, that is a very broad and wide area to really base numbers off of. First off what is considered "unskilled"? Is it people who have never worked a day in their lives, people with no secondary education or special training? Just because you're unskilled doesn't mean you are automatically going to be making minimum wage. Which is the next point, you can't categorize work group based on an assumption of what they might make. There are many factors that get taken into account when setting a wage for a new employee; experience, need, how much is involved with the job, ect.

    Obviously the lower wage workers are going to have the highest unemployment, but that has more to do with the fact that it's the largest demographic when it comes to jobs/workforce and the ease it is to fill those positions then whatever the minimum wage is. The unemployment rate of the lower tier work force has always had the highest unemployment rate no matter minimum wage.

  16. #16
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Unskilled, according to the paper I read on the topic, defined as 16 to 18 years of age with "less than" to a "highschool education." That makes up the vast majority of minimum wage/ unskilled earners. And among that group unemployment is highest whrer price floors are set. What's more, the exit rate from minimum wage for those earners drops dramatically everytime the price floor increased given, where the relative price of labor stands at first.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  17. #17
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    the minimum wage is a double edged sword. It does increase overall costs, but if employees feel that they are getting paid a fair wage, they will work harder, thus usually increasing sales or cut costs elsewhere, thus increasing overall income (at least in the retail industry, this obviously doesn't go for all sectors)
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    if employees feel that they are getting paid a fair wage, they will work harder
    That's a very abstract concept to back up any support for the minimum wage. Happiness is an animal best left unto itself. Not to say their isn't a substitution effect of higher wages, it's just how much and whether it's actually cost effective. We don't know, nor can we know.

    I like more money, but that doesn't necessarily mean i'm going to work harder, or even work more hours assuming I even have that option. And IF I had that option, am I pushing out other labor that is less enthusiastic to work or am I adding to it? It's one thing for you to want to work more, it's a whole other thing for an Employer to want to pay you more because you want to work more.
    Last edited by JP226; July 25, 2009 at 03:51 PM.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  19. #19
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    That's a very abstract concept to back up any support for the minimum wage. Happiness is an animal best left unto itself. Not to say their isn't a substitution effect of higher wages, it's just how much and whether it's actually cost effective. We don't know, nor can we know.

    I like more money, but that doesn't necessarily mean i'm going to work harder, or even work more hours assuming I even have that option. And IF I had that option, am I pushing out other labor that is less enthusiastic to work or am I adding to it? It's one thing for you to want to work more, it's a whole other thing for an Employer to want to pay you more because you want to work more.
    true, the idea doesn't apply to everyone, there will always be exceptions, but I think as a general rule, it works. that said, you're right, there's no way we could give a 100% sure answer.
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
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  20. #20
    Angrychris's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Minimum Wage

    Goes well with the 10% sales tax in CA even though i believe our minimum wage is higher. Workers gotta take what they can get so the upper management can get there fat bonuses.

    Leave it to the modder to perfect the works of the paid developers for no profit at all.

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