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    Default The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    "Independent pirate parties have sprung up in dozens of countries across the world. It is now a global battle."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/8140895.stm

    This is a 10 minute long documentary about the rising Swedish Piracy party and all the fuss about it. Heres the article:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Page last updated at 17:48 GMT, Wednesday, 22 July 2009 18:48 UK
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    Why the pirates are on the rise in Sweden



    Watch Matt Prodger's full report on the rise of the Swedish Pirates

    Newsnight's Matt Prodger visits Sweden's Peace and Love music festival in Borlange to investigate what it is about the Swedes that has put them at the heart of a raging debate about internet freedom.
    For 24-hour party people a visit to the land of the midnight sun is a must. For one thing, the Swedes are serious when it comes to having fun - and at this time of year the sun never sets.
    The Pirate Party doesn't want to be perceived as a bunch of computer hackers that just want to download the latest Angelina Jolie movie for free


    Katrine Kielos, Aftonbladet columnist

    And so it is that I find myself at the Peace and Love festival in Borlänge long after bedtime, negotiating a sea of tents which stretches far into the blood-red glow of a night-long dusk .
    I am here to try to find out what it is about Swedes that has put them at the heart of a raging debate about internet freedom.
    It is estimated - but nobody really knows - that at least one in 10 Swedes swap music illegally via BitTorrent file-sharing websites like Sweden's notorious Pirate Bay, and it is thought that in 2008, some 15m films were illegally downloaded here.
    'Sharing is caring'
    Sitting in the shelter of a waist-high pile of beer crates I find my target demographic - a group of music-loving festival-goers.
    Out of the five of them, three voted for the Pirate Party in this year's European elections, helping to put a representative, Christian Engström, into the European Parliament.
    Falkvinge's Pirate Party won seven percent of the vote in the EU elections

    Twenty-year-old Erik Lennermo explains why he voted for the Pirate Party.
    "Civil rights. Everybody has a right of privacy for their own e-mails, SMS messages and phone calls. File-sharing is just a small bit of the whole cake."
    His friend Daniel Gustavsson's support for the Pirate Party is more straightforward: "I just care about the file-sharing," he says. "Sharing is caring."
    Such views have propelled the country into what Swedish MP Camilla Lindberg describes as the biggest political debate for 20 years.
    At its heart is a controversial law passed in parliament last year.
    Known as the FRA Law, in honour of the Swedish electronic intelligence agency, equivalent to Britain's GCHQ, it permits the monitoring of international phone calls, e-mail and internet traffic.
    Some of the world's most powerful computers will scan all cross-border e-traffic in real time for a quarter of a million trigger words and phrases that the security services believe warrant further investigation.
    And it can be done without judicial oversight.
    Anti-terror necessity
    In the UK the Home Office recently put out to consultation proposals which would give GCHQ similar powers.
    Erik said he voted for the party because of its civil rights stance

    Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt told Newsnight the law is directed not at file-sharers, but terrorists:
    "I think we struck a clear balance between integrity… and security," he said.
    "Take for instance a bomb blowing up in Stockholm or London - a lot of the electorate would ask me 'What did you do [to prevent it]?'
    "For a long time we haven't seen such things in Sweden, and then it's very easy to say we don't need (the FRA Law). But I have to take a long-term responsibility."
    Popular support
    But that argument does not wash with Pirate Party founder Rick Falkvinge, who advocates reforming copyright laws to allow free file-sharing, downloading, and the right to copy everything from the latest Hollywood blockbuster to patented pharmaceuticals.
    "The thing is you can't just monitor some internet traffic," he told me. "In order to find out what you want to see you need to see all of it. It's not about swapping music as such. It's about the Big Brother society that is being set up using the excuse of catching file-sharers.
    The Swedish PM says the FRA law is designed to combat terrorism

    "We know where this road ends, even though each step of the way can be justified, because so many societies have been down it before."
    To make the point, activists deluged Swedish parliamentarians with copies of George Orwell's totalitarian satire 1984 ahead of last year's vote.
    Yet among MPs in the ruling coalition, only Camilla Lindberg of the Liberal People's Party voted against the wiretapping law.
    "Two weeks before the vote last year we had big demonstrations, 10,000 people here," she says, pointing at the parliament building in Stockholm.
    "Each MP got thousands of emails… suddenly I realised I'm not the only one against this. It's people from the left and right, young and old feel the same thing."
    But why Sweden? Part of it is, of course, the country's technological prowess.
    While Finland has Nokia, Sweden gave us Ericsson. Swedes enjoy some of the highest - and fastest - rates of connectivity in the world, a development that has been spurred by necessity because of the country's sparsely populated geography.
    Cultural differences
    And then there is Sweden's liberal culture, part of which is the principle of Allemansratten.
    "Allemansratten means everyone's right. It's an important part of Swedish culture and identity," Katrine Kielos, a columnist on Sweden's best-selling daily tabloid Aftonbladet, explained to me.
    We are going to put the record industry out of business... we are very much looking forward to that


    Pirate Party founder Rick Falkvinge

    "It means that the law of trespass is very weak in Sweden, so you have the right to access somebody's property in a way that is not possible in other countries."
    Ms Kielos' tutorial in Allemansratten came as we stood together on the roof of Sweden's historic parliament building.
    This would be trespass pretty much anywhere else in the world. Here, the only restriction on my Stockholm rooftop tour is a safety harness.
    "The Pirate Party doesn't want to be perceived as a bunch of computer hackers that just want to download the latest Angelina Jolie movie for free," she said.
    "So they're trying to frame this issue in the way of Allemansratten because this is something that resonates a lot in Swedish culture."
    Political kingmaker
    According to political analyst Stig-Bjorn Ljunggren if, as expected, the Pirate Party wins seats in the Swedish parliament in elections next year, it could well find itself the kingmaker between the country's two established political blocs.
    "You have two blocks in parliament: one green and red, and one blue. And if a third party comes into parliament they could choose which one of these two parties will form a government.
    "They (the Pirate Party) will sell the post of prime minister to the party that gives most to them," he said.
    Talking 'Allemansratten' on the roof of Sweden's parliament building

    And the prime minister has not ruled out doing a deal with the party.
    Some musicians and artists, like Abba's Bjorn Ulvaeus, have spoken out against the Pirate Party, but few will go on the record because the debate is so explosive.
    An exception is Alexandar Bard, a musician behind 100 Swedish top 40 hits, and latterly an academic specialising in the internet.
    He says file-sharing is killing the Swedish music industry: "Six years ago Sweden was the third biggest producer of music in the world and last year we were only the ninth.
    "So today in Sweden it's impossible to get a recording contract because there are no record companies around to sign with. It means you can't get paid for making music and you can't get a budget to make music.
    "File-sharing is not a big issue politically, it's not like climate change or the environment. And the Pirate Party has turned it into a big issue to win votes."
    But Pirate Party founder Mr Falkvinge is unrepentant.
    "We are going to put the record industry out of business", he says. "And we are very much looking forward to that."
    And like the Vikings of yore, the pirates' philosophy has spread far and wide. Independent pirate parties have sprung up in dozens of countries across the world. It is now a global battle.


    Myself I did not vote for the Pirates. Its afterall an anarchy party. However I am not sure where in the filesharing debate I stand, and what is best for music and its musicans.

    The question is, what is the next country to elect a piracy party?
    Last edited by Norpheus; July 24, 2009 at 05:21 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Norpheus View Post
    The question is, what is the next country to elect a piracy party?
    Somalia

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    DekuTrash's Avatar Human Directional
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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauvin View Post
    Somalia



  4. #4

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    I really hope every country keeps copyright laws.
    Any country that removes them suddenly becomes bottom-feeders, the place companies go to to steal the the technology of others and not get sued for it, and then make minor modifications and patent it in another.
    If sweden wants to do it, go ahead. Youll see where it goes. It ends up just the same as protectionism and socialism do, they sound great at the time and in principle and when you try it out every company moves its headquarters and noone sells anything apart from physical (and only then, stuff like food) items. The stock market and corporate world rely on human psychology, and nothing says "GET THE ING HELL OUT" to stockholder more then that copyright law is gone.
    Maybe the world needs an example. I like sweden, but I i like the scenery more then i do the parties.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    It ends up just the same as protectionism and socialism do, they sound great at the time and in principle and when you try it out every company moves its headquarters and noone sells anything apart from physical (and only then, stuff like food) items. The stock market and corporate world rely on human psychology, and nothing says "GET THE ING HELL OUT" to stockholder more then that copyright law is gone.
    Maybe the world needs an example. I like sweden, but I i like the scenery more then i do the parties.

    aside from the copyright issues, which have nothing much to do, on a large scale, with the Friedmanite economics you're clearly pushing, you are absolutely wrong about what economic structure is healthy in the long term.

    the last forty years since the Friedmanite 'projects' in South America started thrusting the world away from Keynes and into the Chicago School lunacy are clear and complete proof that Friedman/Reagon/Free Market Capitalism is NOT the basis for a sound economy, and that social spending and protectionism is absolutely VITAL to protect billions of people from foreign exploitation

    ridiculous. Bush gave us 8 years of no oversight, no restrictions, and the most hands-off government, economically speaking, in modern history, and look what happened. the proof is in the pudding.

    there is simply no such thing as the perfect free-market economy where the 'market' magically balances itself based on "laws of economics". absolute GARBAGE. it exists nowhere but in a bunch of computer simulated mathematical models based on the wed-dream theories of elitist fanatics who see what they want to see, and have convinced lesser fools they are right by virtue of Ivy Leage degrees. pfft.

    the recent history of the world (particularly since Reagan and Thatcher, the twin devils of the freemarket nightmare, but of course with roots MUCH deeper) with the advent of globalization and huge multinational conglomerates, has been moved closer and closer to the 'free market' that you think will solve everything. AND WHAT IS THE RESULT?

    here's a list:

    -the gap between the rich and poor has grown
    -the percentage of people living below the poverty line worldwide has grown
    -the unemployment rate worldwide has grown,
    -Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day
    -25,000 children die each day due to poverty
    -More than 80 percent of the world’s population lives in countries where income differentials are widening
    -At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day


    but all we have to do is move to a completely 'free' market, and all these problems will solve themselves, right? in the long run, huh?

    not protectionism, not social spending, not redistribution of wealth... but, the FREE MARKET!!

    idiotic. go back to wiping your nose with The Economist, and come back when you're willing to face reality.
    Last edited by slaptast!ck; August 28, 2009 at 08:01 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by slaptast!ck View Post
    aside from the copyright issues, which have nothing much to do, on a large scale, with the Friedmanite economics you're clearly pushing, you are absolutely wrong about what economic structure is healthy in the long term.

    the last forty years since the Friedmanite 'projects' in South America started thrusting the world away from Keynes and into the Chicago School lunacy are clear and complete proof that Friedman/Reagon/Free Market Capitalism is NOT the basis for a sound economy, and that social spending and protectionism is absolutely VITAL to protect billions of people from foreign exploitation

    ridiculous. Bush gave us 8 years of no oversight, no restrictions, and the most hands-off government, economically speaking, in modern history, and look what happened. the proof is in the pudding.

    there is simply no such thing as the perfect free-market economy where the 'market' magically balances itself based on "laws of economics". absolute GARBAGE. it exists nowhere but in a bunch of computer simulated mathematical models based on the wed-dream theories of elitist fanatics who see what they want to see, and have convinced lesser fools they are right by virtue of Ivy Leage degrees. pfft.

    the recent history of the world (particularly since Reagan and Thatcher, the twin devils of the freemarket nightmare, but of course with roots MUCH deeper) with the advent of globalization and huge multinational conglomerates, has been moved closer and closer to the 'free market' that you think will solve everything. AND WHAT IS THE RESULT?

    here's a list:

    -the gap between the rich and poor has grown
    -the percentage of people living below the poverty line worldwide has grown
    -the unemployment rate worldwide has grown,
    -Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day
    -25,000 children die each day due to poverty
    -More than 80 percent of the world’s population lives in countries where income differentials are widening
    -At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day


    but all we have to do is move to a completely 'free' market, and all these problems will solve themselves, right? in the long run, huh?

    not protectionism, not social spending, not redistribution of wealth... but, the FREE MARKET!!

    idiotic. go back to wiping your nose with The Economist, and come back when you're willing to face reality.
    This is one of the most moronic arguments ive ever seen made. So the world being better but not perfect is your proof for free-market economics being bad?
    You realize 300 years ago, Only a small elite was anywhere near rich, and the rest were poor.
    Your only valid argument (the rest are easily nonsensical, since people were WORSE off a couple of dozen years ago) is that income gaps are widening, But it doesnt really matter, since people overall are richer. People hate classical economics, But if your 10 dollars richer for every dollar im richer, its still better for society then everyone being half a dollar poorer.
    But the stupidest thing about it is that you provided no proof at all to think that an alternative would be superior. Social spending i can understand you wanting, But protectionism ignores most economic principles, and redistribution of wealth in its raw form is crazy , You want me to take your money and give it to some bum? I understand taxes are a very diluted form of this, but they have a valid reasonign behind them, and are very valid in themselves. And even social spending isnt arguably very useful.
    Anyway id idnt really want to turn this into a serious argument about economic principles. but if thats what you want im ready for it.
    But the thing i dislike most about your post is what makes you think that it even relates to mine? are you going to somehow prove that removing copyright law is going to boost a countries economy? Good luck with that.
    Edit: I just realize the guy i replied to was a troll who probably left long ago . Ah well.

    As long as I pirate a song/software/whatever for PRIVATE and non-commercial use, it should not be a problem. Dont throw your pretend-economic-analysis on me. It has nothing to with it. Its my freedom and right to do it. Guess what, the world changes. Industries come and go. No one ever misses them.

    This why I voted Pirate in the EU-election. This is why I will vote for them again.
    Perfectly fine, But companies should have the right and freedom to sue you and take the money you should have paid for it back.
    Last edited by roy34543; August 28, 2009 at 03:58 PM.

  7. #7
    Lovejoy's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    Perfectly fine, But companies should have the right and freedom to sue you and take the money you should have paid for it back.
    Nah. Bad idea. You could just as well make it illegal to read a book to your daughter. Where is the difference? Its not illegal for me to look at a IKEA chair and go out and build myself one. Why give special freedoms and rights to music/movie/software companies?
    Political Correct Liberal Douche

  8. #8

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovejoy View Post
    Nah. Bad idea. You could just as well make it illegal to read a book to your daughter. Where is the difference? Its not illegal for me to look at a IKEA chair and go out and build myself one. Why give special freedoms and rights to music/movie/software companies?
    Theres nothing stopping you from seeing mass effect at a friends house and making the graphics engine, code , and original content all by yoursel f(assuming you dont call the game mass effect) and play it yourself.
    And it would be illegal to see a IKEA chair and copy it , but noone would KNOW unless you put the ikea brand on it.

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    Lovejoy's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by slaptast!ck View Post
    -the gap between the rich and poor has grown
    -the percentage of people living below the poverty line worldwide has grown
    -the unemployment rate worldwide has grown,
    -Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day
    -25,000 children die each day due to poverty
    -More than 80 percent of the world’s population lives in countries where income differentials are widening
    -At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day


    but all we have to do is move to a completely 'free' market, and all these problems will solve themselves, right? in the long run, huh?

    not protectionism, not social spending, not redistribution of wealth... but, the FREE MARKET!!

    idiotic. go back to wiping your nose with The Economist, and come back when you're willing to face reality.
    Look at this. You may not agree with him, but atleast he's funny. Its an awesome video. http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_roslin...ever_seen.html
    Political Correct Liberal Douche

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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Can you please change the title to reflect that this is internet / software / whatever piracy, not the real kind.

    You know, the "yo ho yo ho" kind.

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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Who gives a ? This is a fad, and will die in a few months, than Sweden will once again sink back into the realms of irrelevance, socialism and good education system.

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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Who gives a ? This is a fad, and will die in a few months, than Sweden will once again sink back into the realms of irrelevance, socialism and good education system.
    And don't forget hot chicks



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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by DekuTrash View Post
    And don't forget hot chicks
    Meh, I prefer Mediterranean.

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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Meh, I prefer Mediterranean.
    You just blew my mind, sir.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Who gives a ? This is a fad, and will die in a few months, than Sweden will once again sink back into the realms of irrelevance, socialism and good education system.
    Im not so sure, as more and more young people get old enough to vote, the more will vote for piracy. No matter how stupid it is.
    The question is if they will go like the "Junilistan" who got 11% last time but now got less than 4%, and that party was also a dissatisfaction party.

    Myself I see it as a shame that this is happening in Sweden. Its more a proof that alot of people dont live in reality.
    (Our good education system was ruined years ago when the Socialdemocrats filled the schools with immigrants which led to a huge decrease in effectivety and safety).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hross View Post
    The irony is that musicians are hardly losing money at all, more people are going to gigs now because they have a wider access to different types of music. Artists don't make money from CD sales unless they are U2 or Metallica. Most bands with a two album career are going to make money from their 15 minutes of fame tour and that is likely to both find its niche and to make more cash due to piracy circumeventing the facist bastards that claim the right to take 80% of CD profits for distributing and exploiting creativity. Piracy is not about exploitation its about enjoyment and what most capitalists here forget, freedom. Of course, artists should have the freedom to have their artistic rights protected and not ripped off by pirates, but when you look at the mass media corporations who are profitting from these artists, you have to ask yourself... 'Weren't pirates by historical definition stealing and extorting money?' The real pirates of today are the corporations.
    Its not only the musicans that are affected by piracy. What do you think that game developers and movie makers think of it?
    Last edited by Norpheus; July 25, 2009 at 07:30 AM.

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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Pirates should be hanged.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    This isnt a fad. Its the very sad past , Present , and future of people who dont understand economics, and the smart people struggling to make them understand how stupid they are.
    but they dont want that, they want short-term gain for long-term massive loss.

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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    This isnt a fad. Its the very sad past , Present , and future of people who dont understand economics, and the smart people struggling to make them understand how stupid they are.
    but they dont want that, they want short-term gain for long-term massive loss.
    What?

  19. #19

    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    What?
    Read my previous post. If you dont understand what i mean in that its not a fad, It isnt. People always need some example like the great depression to make them see how stupid it is to choose the easy and good sounding economic soloution instead of the harder but more intellegent soloution.
    And theyre going to need some country removing copyright laws before they realize theyre a good thing.

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    Hengest's Avatar It's a joke
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    Default Re: The global debate of Piracy, and why its so strong in Sweden

    The irony is that musicians are hardly losing money at all, more people are going to gigs now because they have a wider access to different types of music. Artists don't make money from CD sales unless they are U2 or Metallica. Most bands with a two album career are going to make money from their 15 minutes of fame tour and that is likely to both find its niche and to make more cash due to piracy circumeventing the facist bastards that claim the right to take 80% of CD profits for distributing and exploiting creativity. Piracy is not about exploitation its about enjoyment and what most capitalists here forget, freedom. Of course, artists should have the freedom to have their artistic rights protected and not ripped off by pirates, but when you look at the mass media corporations who are profitting from these artists, you have to ask yourself... 'Weren't pirates by historical definition stealing and extorting money?' The real pirates of today are the corporations.

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