Single payer heatlh care?

[elusivecorn]

A single payer health care system would be cheaper, more efficient, and cover all Americans.

What are other people's opinions and views on this?

I believe that everyone American should be cared for by our government, and not by greedy insurance companies that capitalize off our health.

Everyone should be covered no matter how many pre-existing conditions they have.
(It's not just poor people that can't get insurance)

I'd also like to add - there is already a single payer system for people above the age of 65, everyone above 65 gets free healthcare.

Medicare

People that are so afraid of the big scary "socialism monster" should be more worried about our government wire tapping our phones without warrants, putting age restrictions on certain products, making drugs illegal, instituting the draft, censoring TV, and bailing out insurance companies that screw us out of money.

Seriously tho, just because some one has pre-existing conditions and low income doesn't mean they deserve to a live a miserable life or die of a treatable condition...

Saying otherwise is extremely inhuman.

[Sidmen]

This is a common discussion here in the Mudpit, all circling around the principals of individual responsibility, and the duties of government.

On the one hand you run into the principal that isn't exactly easy to dismiss. That everyone is responsible for himself, and his actions. It is a simple extension of this philosophy that holds that only you are responsible for arranging your own medical care.

[Georgy Zhukov]

A single payer health care system would be cheaper, more efficient, and cover all Americans.

What are other people's opinions and views on this?

I believe that everyone American should be cared for by our government, and not by greedy insurance companies that capitalize off our health.

Everyone should be covered no matter how many pre-existing conditions they have.
(It's not just poor people that can't get insurance)

I'd also like to add - there is already a single payer system for people above the age of 65, everyone above 65 gets free healthcare.

Medicare

People that are so afraid of the big scary "socialism monster" should be more worried about our government wire tapping our phones without warrants, putting age restrictions on certain products, making drugs illegal, instituting the draft, censoring TV, and bailing out insurance companies that screw us out of money.

Seriously tho, just because some one has pre-existing conditions and low income doesn't mean they deserve to a live a miserable life or die of a treatable condition...

Saying otherwise is extremely inhuman.

You sir, have not been in the pit for long.

[Panzerbear]

A single payer health care system would be cheaper, more efficient, and cover all Americans.

What are other people's opinions and views on this?

I believe that everyone American should be cared for by our government, and not by greedy insurance companies that capitalize off our health.

Everyone should be covered no matter how many pre-existing conditions they have.
(It's not just poor people that can't get insurance)

I'd also like to add - there is already a single payer system for people above the age of 65, everyone above 65 gets free healthcare.

Medicare

People that are so afraid of the big scary "socialism monster" should be more worried about our government wire tapping our phones without warrants, putting age restrictions on certain products, making drugs illegal, instituting the draft, censoring TV, and bailing out insurance companies that screw us out of money.

Seriously tho, just because some one has pre-existing conditions and low income doesn't mean they deserve to a live a miserable life or die of a treatable condition...

Saying otherwise is extremely inhuman.

dear god kill me.

government has already run Social Security into the ground. Medicare is also virtually bankrupt. and so is Medicaid. and you are proposing what exactly, yet another big government healthcare system that is doomed to fail?

the fact is that there are "only" 11 million people in the US who are both a) legal US residents, and b) really want health care coverage, but can't afford it due to their income constraints. if Obama really gave a shite about those people, he would have pre-paid those people's healthcare costs years in advance from his last stimulus bill (which would be $20-30 billion, which is pennies compared to what was spent on various pork).

if somebody doesn't like American health care system (which is the world's best, may be on par only with Swiss one), they are free to move to Canada and stand hours in lines to see a ing doctor. unlike many of you guys, I actually grew up in a socialist country and I know very well how piss poor is the govt-run universal health care works. and I have seen enough of this to never ever want to experience it again.

the main problem with the system is that a) it is extremely inefficient, b) it is causing virtually unlimited demand because the govt-provided services are much cheaper. and since the govt is NEVER able to meet this high demand, it is forced to ration healthcare services. and then the next thing you know there will be a big nanny healthcare govt body, who will tell you which services it will cover, and which it won't. and the next thing you know is that your father's rare cancer treatment is not covered because it is too expensive and he is too old anyway.

[Admiral Piett]

dear god kill me.

government has already run Social Security into the ground. Medicare is also virtually bankrupt. and so is Medicaid. and you are proposing what exactly, yet another big government healthcare system that is doomed to fail?

the fact is that there are "only" 11 million people in the US who are both a) legal US residents, and b) really want health care coverage, but can't afford it due to their income constraints. if Obama really gave a shite about those people, he would have pre-paid those people's healthcare costs years in advance from his last stimulus bill (which would be $20-30 billion, which is pennies compared to what was spent on various pork).

if somebody doesn't like American health care system (which is the world's best, may be on par only with Swiss one), they are free to move to Canada and stand hours in lines to see a ing doctor. unlike many of you guys, I actually grew up in a socialist country and I know very well how piss poor is the govt-run universal health care works. and I have seen enough of this to never ever want to experience it again.

the main problem with the system is that a) it is extremely inefficient, b) it is causing virtually unlimited demand because the govt-provided services are much cheaper. and since the govt is NEVER able to meet this high demand, it is forced to ration healthcare services. and then the next thing you know there will be a big nanny healthcare govt body, who will tell you which services it will cover, and which it won't. and the next thing you know is that your father's rare cancer treatment is not covered because it is too expensive and he is too old anyway.

This is a very ideologically ignorant rant.

Guess what, Canada has a shite system for various reasons. It's poorly administered and understaffed. Britain, France, Holland, and Belgium on the other hand have perfect examples of how universal healthcare does and should work in the real world.

[OTZ]

This is a very ideologically ignorant rant.

Guess what, Canada has a shite system for various reasons. It's poorly administered and understaffed.

I believe your statement; "This is a very ideologically ignorant rant" applies quite nicely to your drib commentary on Canada's sytem.

[Ulyaoth]

What's the Swiss system?

[Panzerbear]

What's the Swiss system?

the Swiss actually spend very close to (if not more than) United States on health care per capita. their dentists, for example, are superb and considered best in Europe.

for more information please refer to wiki, as usual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

[s.rwitt]

I believe that everyone American should be cared for by our government

You want the same people that run our public education system, the disaster known as Social Security, and medicare to be responsible for your healthcare?

Not to mention the fact that it's just wrong to force other people to pay for you to get better. Hey, food is more important than healthcare. Are the rich going to buy my food, too? What about my clothes? I could use a car, too, so I can get to work, is the government going to give me that? I'll need gas to go in the car, free government gas vouchers? How about a house? Will the taxpayers give me that? Hell, why do I even need a job, the government will give me everything I need!

[Ulyaoth]

You want the same people that run our public education system, the disaster known as Social Security, and medicare to be responsible for your healthcare?

Not to mention the fact that it's just wrong to force other people to pay for you to get better. Hey, food is more important than healthcare. Are the rich going to buy my food, too? What about my clothes? I could use a car, too, so I can get to work, is the government going to give me that? I'll need gas to go in the car, free government gas vouchers? How about a house? Will the taxpayers give me that? Hell, why do I even need a job, the government will give me everything I need!

To be fair insurance is having other people pay for your care, if you ever need major care that is.

[My Favorite Martian]

To be fair insurance is having other people pay for your care, if you ever need major care that is.

I think it is also a question of mentality, less a question of political ideologies. That aspect is probably a positive one in Switzerland. Another aspect are the relative high healthcare insurrance prices there. They contribute at least to some degree (through the revenues of the medication sells on the home market) to the high investment pharmaceutical research requires. Pharma is one of the main industry of Switzerland. Everything comes with a price and this includes high quality jobs and industries that could be elsewhere. The problem in USA stands in another context I would say. You simply have too many people without insurrance and that situation creates also costs to the community that need to be distributed better obviousely. The choice Americans have now, is either to increase taxes for all or for certain groups of taxpayers and/or to modify the legal base of the health insurance system.

[elusivecorn]

People think they are going to be paying for poor people's health care.

In reality they are going to be paying for their own health care for a cheaper price than their current insurances costs.

[Disaray]

You want the same people that run our public education system, the disaster known as Social Security, and medicare to be responsible for your healthcare?

Not to mention the fact that it's just wrong to force other people to pay for you to get better. Hey, food is more important than healthcare. Are the rich going to buy my food, too? What about my clothes? I could use a car, too, so I can get to work, is the government going to give me that? I'll need gas to go in the car, free government gas vouchers? How about a house? Will the taxpayers give me that? Hell, why do I even need a job, the government will give me everything I need!

I can't understand people like you. You talk about the government up and down the street but when the really hits the fan I bet you call them for help. Or do you put out the fire all by your self if you your house goes up? Or do you stop all the criminals that are targeting you all on your own? Do you keep unscrupulous businessmen from giving you the shaft with price fixing or putting toxic chemicals in your food? I bet you repair the roads your self too. And as for defense against foreign powers, I bet you are doing a crackerjack job of that all on your own.

As for it being wrong to have others pay for your convalescence, do you have insurance? If you do, then others are paying for that very thing. On top of that if you do have private health insurance it is being heavily subsidized by the government any way so that is a double hypocrisy.

I am only guessing based on your post that you are one of those conservative types and you like to think that you and your ilk are good with money. If that is true then tell me this: Why do you back the current healthcare system? As it stands now the US spends about 17% of our GDP on health care and covers some thing like 30% of the population adequately. The Canadians on the other hand spend about 7% GDP on health care and cover their whole population; these numbers are similar for all nations that use a socialized medical program. Further more our current system spends 30% of every dollar spent on health care on paperwork, administrative bureaucracy, and CEO salaries. Medicare, the evil socialist plan, spends around 3% covering the same things. So why not go with a plan that will cost less, cover more people, and make health care about healing people rather than milking them for profit?

Another thing I can't figure out is why you people go on about "The best health care system in the world" all the time. Saying things like hundreds of thousands of people come here every year just for health care. I will grant that if you have enough money you can get some really swank health care here, with all kinds of robots and lasers and neat things like that. But for the average Joe on the street it is more affordable to go to some where like India or Bolivia to get good quality health care, even when you factor in a round trip air fare. It is so much cheaper in fact that 750 thousand Americans did just that last year; it is called health care tourism and is a fast growing industry. Remember all those old people going to Canada to buy the same drugs as they could get here because they were so much cheaper there than here?

[Sidmen]

Not to mention the fact that it's just wrong to force other people to pay for you to get better. Hey, food is more important than healthcare. Are the rich going to buy my food, too? What about my clothes? I could use a car, too, so I can get to work, is the government going to give me that? I'll need gas to go in the car, free government gas vouchers? How about a house? Will the taxpayers give me that? Hell, why do I even need a job, the government will give me everything I need!

Ever heard of food stamps, public transportation, and government housing?

[s.rwitt]

Ever heard of food stamps, public transportation, and government housing?

Okay "public transportation" isn't the government giving me a car. Government housing isn't actually a house. Food stamps aren't given to a significant part of the population like this new healthcare nonsense will be.

And the amazing part of this to me is that;

a.) Obama promises to do this without taxing anyone but "the rich".
b.) People think this is okay.

[Sidmen]

Okay "public transportation" isn't the government giving me a car. Government housing isn't actually a house. Food stamps aren't given to a significant part of the population like this new healthcare nonsense will be.

I know, but it was pretty close to what you were saying, just like whatever bastardized health care plan we end up with will be. Not what we expect, but a sub-par alternative.

And the amazing part of this to me is that;

a.) Obama promises to do this without taxing anyone but "the rich".
b.) People think this is okay.

I'm of the persuasion that we could get rid of the medicare/medicade tax and replace it with a fixed % tax on everyone's earnings. I'm a fan of universal coverage, but not of the methods that our politicians want to go about getting it.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

I'm of the persuasion that we could get rid of the medicare/medicade tax and replace it with a fixed % tax on everyone's earnings. I'm a fan of universal coverage, but not of the methods that our politicians want to go about getting it.

I hate to break this too but there is a Medicare tax of 2.9% on everyone's gross income.

[s.rwitt]

I'm of the persuasion that we could get rid of the medicare/medicade tax and replace it with a fixed % tax on everyone's earnings. I'm a fan of universal coverage, but not of the methods that our politicians want to go about getting it.

You're right, wealth redistribution is totally against what the US was meant to be and the system that has made us as strong as we are.

[elusivecorn]

You're right, wealth redistribution is totally against what the US was meant to be and the system that has made us as strong as we are.

The U.S. has changed a lot since it was made. When we were founded we had slavery, discrimination, several forms of currency (anyone company could produce their own currency until the federal reserve was established) we had no such thing as income tax.

Taxing the rich a few extra dollars is nothing. I'm not saying its right, but I am saying its completely insignificant for some one to pay a few extra dollars when they earn over 400,000 dollars a year.

[Henry X]

That's the problem right there; the rich already pay the majority of taxes.

One second, I'm going to go find something I said about healthcare.

Here it is:

My worthless, two cents; I don't like healthcare any way shape or form. My family (and by extension me), are self-paid when it comes to hospital bills.

My uncle is an ENT, and last I checked, he wasn't too fond of some brain-dead maniac in Washington dictating his wages.

Add to what I've heard about other countries' healthcare problems: people waiting twelve hours just to get a broken arm treated, people being turned down because they "haven't suffered enough", etc.

As for his economic policies, here's how I see it:

If we lower taxes (on the wealthy) and cut spending, more jobs are created by private businesses correct? Well then these employed people now pay their share of the income tax, lessening the burden that the wealthy have to pay (as they already pay the majority of the income tax).

If we raise taxes (on the wealthy), they layoff people, these people no longer pay taxes because they are unemployed, hence they don't have to pay income tax (half of zero is still zero). To make up for these losses, the government has to increase taxes on the wealthy once again, and the cycle continues so on and so forth.

Just my two cents.

The rich already pay the majority of the taxes, making them pay more, while the poor don't pay ?

I don't even pay taxes and this healthcare system just makes me sick!

The rich employ the poor, making sure that they make money so they can pay taxes. Increase these taxes, and suddenly people are unemployed, meaning the wealthy pay more taxes, and so on and so forth.

Insurance should only be for the truly costly operations.

Most doctors accept cash up front.

Adding more:

When I twisted my right testicle (torsion of the testicle. and yes that is an actual injury), I didn't have insurance (well my parents didn't), and they didn't complain.

And when I went under the knife to have the "boys" sewn down, my mother payed the surgeon upfront in an outpatient procedure.

Healthcare wouldn't have done jack for me.

Considering that a woman in Canada had to wait twelve hours just for a broken arm, if I had been forced to wait twelve hours, my right nut would be dead right now.