Obviously OP Units: Thoughts?

**ZeroCass** · July 21, 2009, 12:00 PM

For practical reasons, CA has never really made a unit that was extremely good at doing everything. Heavy Cavalry don't last a minute in a stand up fight, spearmen get totaled by swordsmen, swordsmen get totaled by open field cavalry charges, and most archers get totaled by anything non-archer. Sorry for stating the obvious. Anyways, what are peoples' thoughts on if CA made a unit (probably cavalry since heavy infantry would be too slow) that just completely destroyed everything in every situation? I.e. A Lancer/Gothic Knights/Famiglia Ducale like cavalry unit that had was shielded, could not only survive in a standing fight with spearmen but destroy them, and still charged extremely well? The only downside would be a recruitment cost double that of say a Lancer or GK and an upkeep to match. The closest thing is a Polish Guard/Tsar's Guard/some Egyptian unit whose name I don't remember and even then they have their downsides. Thoughts?

**Surgeon** · July 21, 2009, 12:03 PM

It's called Elephants.

**Silent Assassin** · July 21, 2009, 12:08 PM

Cannon Elephants of the Timurids and Camel Gunner from the Morrs really rocks.

Edit:

I also need to add that this was the reality in real life so... If the game was made in a way that all units had no weakness then what would have been the worth of making a strategic game where you don't need strategy?

**NobleNick** · July 21, 2009, 12:27 PM

Every unit available to players needs an achilles heel. Otherwise you could just spam it, ignore tactics; and the game can become boring.

Case in point: back in RTW, Forresters (Gaul) could, with a bit of planning, be made to have a ranged attack of 18, 19 or so, AND they were considered spearmen against cav. Fielding stacks of 20 of these, was an unstoppable force against enemy mid-game units. The Forresters killed EVERYTHING (including a goodly number of their own support troops, if brought along), and typically routed entire enemy stacks (and even multiple enemy stacks) before the stacks could close to melee. The Forrester's ranged attack could be made GREATER than the melee attack of Gaul's elite swordsmen (Chosen Swords)! The only thing which kept it interesting is that accomplishing this feat took planning, money, and a little skill at execution.

EDIT: Rebel6666's comment is right on. A strategy game without the need for strategy: What's the point of playing it?

**ZeroCass** · July 21, 2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rebel6666

Cannon Elephants of the Timurids and Camel Gunner from the Morrs really rocks.

Edit:

I also need to add that this was the reality in real life so... If the game was made in a way that all units had no weakness then what would have been the worth of making a strategic game where you don't need strategy?

Not entirely true. While CA does in part attempt to make their games as realistic as possible, game balance comes before realism. Take the Polish Guard for example: Arguably the best cavalry unit in the game; it has the same charge effect as a Lancer/GK but it has a shield. Why is this unit the only heavy plated horse cavalry in the game? Because Poland's roster is terrible; poor archers and weak infantry can't back up the Polish Guard. Slap the Guard in almost any roster and you've got a faction that's ridiculously overpowered. Historically, most, if not all cavalry used shields. The only thing I would agree to being realistic is weakness against spears, but they'll still lose in standing melee against swords.

Actually, thinking about it, it'd be awesome to see them implement a dismount during battle function like they did for Dragoons in ETW except you would be able to dismount after a charge. It would be a nightmare for game balance but I'm still hoping CA makes an OP cavalry unit that costs me 3000 florins per unit or implements mid battle dismounting so they don't get butthurt by infantry.

**sumaznguy** · July 21, 2009, 12:29 PM

Well they could exist, super elites that are masters at multiple weapons. But they would be super limited and super expensive.

Some of the elite archers are fairly decent in melee. Maybe not against cavalry. But add in stakes, and bam they can handle nearly everything.

**SoulBlade** · July 21, 2009, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by sumaznguy

Well they could exist, super elites that are masters at multiple weapons. But they would be super limited and super expensive.

NINJAS FTW!

Melee Attack: 20
Missle Attack: 24

Defence skill: 10
Armor: 1
Shield: 0(?)

Can hide anywhere
Bonus fighting in woods
Bonus fighting versus elephants
Excellent morale
Excellent stamina
Very fast moving
Very long missles
CAN AVOID ATTACKS!

Now that's an OP unit =D