Suggestions (unofficial)

[MVP7]

I made this thead because the official suggestions thread has been closed and no new has appeared. This thread is ment for realistic suggestions. That means no "lets add templars as mercenaries"-kind of suggestions or suggestions that are impossible to put into practise (because of the amount of work or due to the limits of game engine for example). Check forums to make sure your suggestion hasn't aready been posted somewhere and stated impossible to execute. Also make sure that thing that you are about to suggest isn't already goin to be included into game in some future version (like special heroes, the ring, historical events etc). Please post unit ideas to unit ideas thread. That should keep this thread in sensible size (I hope ).

Here are my suggestions: Pikes should really change their pikes to swords when enemy gets through the pike wall, as they do in vanilla. Pikes-forever makes pike units a kind of anti-everything unit. When some attacker finally gets through the pikes he is instantly pierced by three or four pikes and poked to death without any chances to act. It should be impossible to do anything with 3,5 meters long pike when enemy is already less than half meter away from you.
This isn't too big deal in campaing game but in multiplayer battles often become just two big pike squares filled with archers standin on hills and waitin for another to attack and lose. Vanilla kind of pike units would be much more realistic and balaced.

Javeliners: I have never personally liked javelin units much because they have way too many heavy javelins with them and they do unrealistically little damage to anemies (How many they have by the way? I have never checked that) . They would be much more interestin units if they had just 3-5 javelins for each men but those javelins could kill normal hevy infantryman with one hit or something like that. Now javeliner are just like archer with little shorter range and little better damage but these changes would make them infatry units with hard hitting ranged first strike feature (this wouldn't of course fit some javelin units that are clearly skirmishers like snagas but I thinks Pelargin marines for example aren't ment to be fleeing skirmishers)

[Muffer Nl]

This isn't too big deal in campaing game but in multiplayer battles often become just two big pike squares filled with archers standin on hills and waitin for another to attack and lose. Vanilla kind of pike units would be much more realistic and balaced.

The game reacts weird to that...
Oh look I can almost hit that enemy from the safe distance of my pike, let's grab my sword and let my pike magically disapear so ic make it magically reapear when the enemy leaves...

[MVP7]

The game reacts weird to that...
Oh look I can almost hit that enemy from the safe distance of my pike, let's grab my sword and let my pike magically disapear so ic make it magically reapear when the enemy leaves...

I have heard of that problem but situation wasn't too bad in vanilla kingdoms in my opinion (at least agains horses right ?). And stupid pikes would still be better than the overpovered ones I think they just simply ruin the multiplayer at the moment only units that can efficiently attack pike wall are trolls and mumakils and even they die relatively fast in middle of pike horde.

[Lordinquisitor]

I have heard of that problem but situation wasn't too bad in vanilla kingdoms in my opinion (at least agains horses right ?). And stupid pikes would still be better than the overpovered ones I think they just simply ruin the multiplayer at the moment only units that can efficiently attack pike wall are trolls and mumakils and even they die relatively fast in middle of pike horde.

Btw.. Thats the reason why no one attacks pike units in the front. Attack in the rear or flank or with arrows and laugh as they die.

[MVP7]

Btw.. Thats the reason why no one attacks pike units in the front. Attack in the rear or flank or with arrows and laugh as they die.

Rear or flank attack doesn't have nearly as good effect as it should, in case of rear attack the last line just turns around after giving an order to attack the flanking unit and the poking massacre begins and it's almost as bad as durin frontal assaults. And as I said, it isn't so big problem with AI , it doesn't react properly to flanking (I have never had any problems with AI commanded pikes, they normaly just fail asap), but when there is flesh and blood and little bit on brains commanding the pike unit it won't just stand there letting enemies to get too close.
That flanking or arrows- tactic is also the main problem with pikes. Archers are cheap and pikes are way too cheap, as a result, the battles are always the same: a square of pikes (= No flanks, no rears, just fronts), heavier units to protect the pikes from arrows and for pike-infantry exploit (HI stand just in front on pikemen, in middle of their pikes (damned game engine). There they can simply kill all enemies that have been poke-jammed by pikes while being entirely protected from enemy infantry. And rest of the army is archers that just shoot enemy formation and maybe a little horse unit to kill enemy archers that come too close without pike square protection. As you can ques, battles tend to become a bit boring in a short time.
This can either be fixed by considerably rising pike prices in custom/multiplayer battles or by taking the vanilla pike system to use (As an example: one dwarven pike unit once killed more than 600 OoMM raiders and lost 20 soldiers, unit scale was largest. They were used together with some HI unit using the tactic described above, HI unit also killed couple hundred enemies)

[Lordinquisitor]

This can either be fixed by considerably rising pike prices in custom/multiplayer battles or by taking the vanilla pike system to use (As an example: one dwarven pike unit once killed more than 600 OoMM raiders and lost 20 soldiers, unit scale was largest. They were used together with some HI unit using the tactic described above, HI unit also killed couple hundred enemies)

Raising the price could work.. IF there is something to be done, what not everyone thinks.
But as i said using the vanilla system won`t work. At least not well.

[DeliCiousTZM]

They have 5 javelins each 5-8 and javallins are cheaper and they can fight to no need to ultra buff the,

i like that pikes are imba Pikes are slow and not OP They can defend castles good but out in the field vs archers and flanks i dont heed them as a treat.

[MVP7]

They have 5 javelins each 5-8 and javallins are cheaper and they can fight to no need to ultra buff the,

i like that pikes are imba Pikes are slow and not OP They can defend castles good but out in the field vs archers and flanks i dont heed them as a treat.

They have that few javelins ? But still, at least some proper units that use javelins (like marines) should do more damage wit them. It just looks stupid when someone gets a hit by a javelin to face but just shakes his head and goes on runnin like nothing has happened. Javelins are supposed to be efficient against armored targets I think.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Pikes are supposed to be bad ass. you Think that something should realy be able to rush their pike wall and win? Come on now.

[DjAci]

Pikes are supposed to be bad ass. you Think that something should realy be able to rush their pike wall and win? Come on now.

Roman legions with short swords defeated (several times) Macedonian phalanx pikemen.

I agree about the pikes.

As for the javelins, each soldier carries 3 or 4 at this moment. However, the animation has been sped up so they can fire them very quicky making them OP. Vanilla version was much better IMO.

TATW biggest shortcoming is that it is almost exclusively designed for single-player (campaign), and almost completely forgoes custom battles (multiplayer). Unit rosters are very unbalanced, and RC didn't help much as well.

[Seleukos_I.]

TATW biggest shortcoming is that it is almost exclusively designed for single-player (campaign), and almost completely forgoes custom battles (multiplayer). Unit rosters are very unbalanced, and RC didn't help much as well.

Well but that's how it was in lore. Some Factions are definitly weaker than others and they don't win battles with one but with two armies, like OoMM

[Quirl]

TATW biggest shortcoming is that it is almost exclusively designed for single-player (campaign), and almost completely forgoes custom battles (multiplayer). Unit rosters are very unbalanced, and RC didn't help much as well.

These are my thoughts exactly. This is the element in TATW that bothers me the most, as it doesn't seem very hotseat or multiplayer friendly. The way I see it, there are three possible resolutions for this:
1) Rework some of the units and aspects of the Grand Campaign to make a better multiplayer and hotseat experience.
2) Create separate campaigns and unit rosters for the single player Grand Campaign and the hotseat Grand Campaign.
3) Just leave it in the hands of the community to create a separate, more balanced multiplayer/hotseat submod.



Now, I don't necessarily agree with the pikemen changes you guys suggested, but I could be swayed with the changes in javelins.

Also, concerning the last suggestion (the multiplayer/hotseat submod): if anyone would be interested in trying that after the 1.3 update, I'd be willing to lend a hand.

[MVP7]

Pikes are supposed to be bad ass. you Think that something should realy be able to rush their pike wall and win? Come on now.

When pike formation gets disordered it should be doomed and I can use one hand fingers to count how many times I have seen pike units getting spread around so badly that it would have lost all of it's combat efficiensy in SS or TA. When someone gets through the wall pikes are useless against him and pikemen who don't drop their pikes at that point should be easy kills (althoug the pike wall in M2TW is too thin as only two first lines use their pikes). Problem is its almost impossible to screw pikewall formation so badly that it breaks.
And I believe that some hevily armored units should be abble to get through pikewalls. Its not too easy to efficiently stab with a pike so hard that it pierces dwarven full plate armor.

[Lordinquisitor]

When pike formation gets disordered it should be doomed and I can use one hand fingers to count how many times I have seen pike units getting spread around so badly that it would have lost all of it's combat efficiensy in SS or TA. When someone gets through the wall pikes are useless against him and pikemen who don't drop their pikes at that point should be easy kills (althoug the pike wall in M2TW is too thin as only two first lines use their pikes). Problem is its almost impossible to screw pikewall formation so badly that it breaks.
And I believe that some hevily armored units should be abble to get through pikewalls. Its not too easy to efficiently stab with a pike so hard that it pierces dwarven full plate armor.

The problem is.. When you give pike units an second weapon they will change to it WAY too fast, making pike units Underpowered and worthless crap like in vanilla.

[darcsabre]

My suggestion: Alot of players want to see the addition of the Dunland faction, but if it was included I think that Isengard would suffer a heavy blow and Dunland wouldn't be strong enough. I think the easiest solution to the Dunland problem would be to add more AoR Dunland units so that players, if they so wish, may field a lore-accurate Dunland force. I'm not quite sure what types of weapons and fighting styles Dunalnd used, but I think a unit of shortbowmen and a unit of club-wielders would be helpful. If Dunland had cavalry, then perhaps make the advanced barracks unlock the stables option to produce some light cavalry. I'm not quite sure what type of skinning would be needed, but I think the typical Dunland spearman unit could just be given bows/clubs and the Rohan Scout unit could be the base for the Dunland cavalry(If they had any).

[Theseus1234]

With swords, pikes become utter and are 110% useless (failures on the battlefield and they waste your money to boot). I think the best option would to nerf them a bit, but PLEASE DON'T ADD THE SWORDS. That's the bane of all vanilla pikemen
EDIT: Lemme introduce you to what I call "The Circle of Life"
Cavalry>archers
Archers>pikemen
Pikemen>cavalry
Horse archers>pikemen
Artillery>pikemen
Heavy infantry flanking>pikemen
Also, TA:TW is definitely a single-player game, without a doubt

[Danny_K_1]

I would say new faction icons.

The currents ones are great but I just don't like the style they are in.

I would rather the usual logo on a circular shield for the icons.

Anyone agree?

[Santeri]

I would say new faction icons.

The currents ones are great but I just don't like the style they are in.

I would rather the usual logo on a circular shield for the icons.

Anyone agree?

I agree with you.

I also don't want to say that old ones are bad and somebody have made good work with them, but I would like more simple ones at least for some factions.

[NewUser]

Make the Gondorian campaign harder; perhaps give them an objective as to conquer Eriador and Rohan.

[Kawee]

Make the Gondorian campaign harder; perhaps give them an objective as to conquer Eriador and Rohan.

Well....first of all...that is very lore-raping
Second of all, people are already struggling to win the Gondor campaign. Especially one Rohan falls and Gondor gets a treat from the triple threat (Mordor, Harad, and Isengard)