If the only way to heaven is through Christ, and you can repent all of your sins through Christ, than why bother not murdering/stealing/raping?

[Orko]

I mean, if you murder and don't follow Christ then you go to hell, but even if you don't muder and still don't follow Christ than you go the hell, while if you murder and follow Christ, you can repent your sins and go to heaven, and if you didn't murder anyone and did follow Christ, than you still go to heaven all the same. So why bother putting any laws against murder in the bible if it doesn't matter and you can just repent and the only way is through Christ?

[Ummon]

Think about what "through Christ" means, there.

[Wolfgang von Zweibrücken]

Think about what "through Christ" means, there.

Hey, the right answer in the first response. Historically, Luther and Calvin struggled with the OP's (in his mind, skewering) quandary in relation to their own cherished concepts of predestination; If you are predestined to heaven or hell, why obey the law?

But we aren't dealing with predestination here, we are dealing with the "deathbed conversion". The thing is, God would know the difference between actual repentance and an attempt at manipulating some divine loop-hole, and he is not bound by loopholes. The Bible itself says that people who obey the letter of the law but break it's spirit are in trouble.

If someone spent their life living in an evil fashion, and then said "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour" 30 seconds before they died, that is different than, say, a warrior who did terrible things in his youth and is genuinely filled with remorse for his sins, begging for forgiveness; And God is capable of knowing the difference.

Even with that being said, I think some crimes are unforgivable, but probably fewer than you would think, if extenuating circumstances are taken into consideration. Child Molestation is probably the worst thing I can think of, and in my opinion there is no forgiveness for those. "It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17: 1-2

There are other crimes that are doubtless unforgivable, but enumerating them as a matter of opinion serves little purpose.

[Helm]

Do you actually want murder, steal and rape?

[karahan]

If the only way to heaven is through Christ, and you can repent all of your sins through Christ, than why bother not murdering/stealing/raping?

As a muslim what i understand from this is, if you were to believe in christ you whouldn't go around "murdering/stealing/raping" in the first place.

[magpie]

I think the Russian Monk Rasputin followed that line of thinking, unless he was given a bad press!

[Ummon]

The russian Monk Rasputin was quite surely a magician of sorts, not a Christian.

[Chaigidel]

one of the great ones indeed; but most definitely a sense seeker, a virtual opposite of orthodox traditions of the region

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

because cardinal sins can't be forgiven. they constitute a one way ticket to Hell when you die.

[Outlaw]

because cardinal sins can't be forgiven. they constitute a one way ticket to Hell when you die.

So does that mean, anyone who has lusted after anything will go straight to hell and not be forgiven?

I think hell will be overcrowded if thats the case..

[gambit]

Well now God knows our plan and isnt going to be fooled.

Thanks orko

[Manco]

I'm pretty sure the OP was a satire of the 'Atheists have no morals and will kill and rape everyone!' type of argument

[Darth Red]

I mean, if you murder and don't follow Christ then you go to hell, but even if you don't muder and still don't follow Christ than you go the hell, while if you murder and follow Christ, you can repent your sins and go to heaven, and if you didn't murder anyone and did follow Christ, than you still go to heaven all the same. So why bother putting any laws against murder in the bible if it doesn't matter and you can just repent and the only way is through Christ?

I would have to say, as a Catholic, the almighty God knows the difference between ignorance (someone who truly doesn't believe what they are doing is wrong) and blatantly and knowingly violating the laws of the Bible. We as christians do believe in repentance and are offered absolution in the hour of our deaths.

[Orko]

I would have to say, as a Catholic, the almighty God knows the difference between ignorance (someone who truly doesn't believe what they are doing is wrong) and blatantly and knowingly violating the laws of the Bible. We as christians do believe in repentance and are offered absolution in the hour of our deaths.

Well, then why is blasphemy unforgivable? I can say I blasphemed out of ignorance(assuming I actually blasphemed), but I will still go to hell. Why is it that way with one sin and not the other?

[Darth Red]

Well, then why is blasphemy unforgivable? I can say I blasphemed out of ignorance(assuming I actually blasphemed), but I will still go to hell. Why is it that way with one sin and not the other?

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

Assuming you blasphemed, in my interpritation of it, you already would have been offered absolution and still rejected Gods word even in the hour of death.

[Mythre]

To answer that question simply. You are not a Christian if you do those things. You would only be claiming to be. If you are a true Christian, your heart will be changed so you have no desire or wish to do any of those things. True, you can be forgiven for murder, but if you murder AFTER supposed "conversion", you should seriously question whether you were saved in the first place.
In short, a true (not fakes/hypocrites) Christian can't and won't murder.

You can replace murder with rape and whatnot there.

[Ragabash]

I would have to say, as a Catholic, the almighty God knows the difference between ignorance (someone who truly doesn't believe what they are doing is wrong) and blatantly and knowingly violating the laws of the Bible. We as christians do believe in repentance and are offered absolution in the hour of our deaths.

But that doesn't necessary mean that one cannot commit sin and still get away with it; for an example, a man lives his life exploiting others and committing horrifying sins for selfish gain, he knows what he does is wrong and is against the message in the bible but is still deeply religious and beliefs in God. He does feel ashamed and guilty about his deeds, but commits them regardless. In his death bed, as a rich man with a dozen of soon to become rich kids he truly knows his time is up and repents, cries out the lord and let loose all those feelings and deeds done in the past. He repents truly, not just in words, all he has done is to delay the repentance.

[MaximiIian]

If the only way to heaven is through Christ, and you can repent all of your sins through Christ, than why bother not murdering/stealing/raping?

Cuz those things are kinda dick moves anyway?
Regardless of religion, if you kill, steal, or rape, you're a dick. Furthermore, I'm not a Christian, and I don't do those things.

[Desperado †]

Cuz those things are kinda dick moves anyway?
Regardless of religion, if you kill, steal, or rape, you're a dick. Furthermore, I'm not a Christian, and I don't do those things.

Don't be absurd! It's completely ridiculous to assume that intelligent human beings can create an independent moral code of right and wrong without the intervention of an omnipotent being! I mean, look at children. They have absolutely no sense of right and wrong before they learn the bible.

[basics]

" I mean, if you murder and don't follow Christ then you go to hell, but even if you don't muder and still don't follow Christ than you go the hell, while if you murder and follow Christ, you can repent your sins and go to heaven, and if you didn't murder anyone and did follow Christ, than you still go to heaven all the same. So why bother putting any laws against murder in the bible if it doesn't matter and you can just repent and the only way is through Christ?"

orko,

Whether you murder or not is immaterial since all are sinners to start with. Feeling sorry for something cannot and will not avail you anything but continuance in bondage to sin and condemnation from the Law. Sin does not have a league dishing out points for the extent of how good you are, even how bad you are, for all fall short, to the same degree, of the glory of God.

What does avail you something, and something quite special, is when God reveals Jesus Christ within you, thus changing your sinful nature for another devoid of such. That is called conversion, being born again, and it strikes when one least expects it. When Jesus said that no man can get to the Father but by Him, and no man can get to Him except by the Father drawing them, it seems a sealed deal.

So how does anyone get anywhere? Well, that no man can get to the Saviour except by the drawing of the Father means that God, the Father, reveals the Son to them. It is then that repentence or conviction takes effect. Why? Because what is revealed is that the Son died where you should have as a result of Him becoming you on that cross. The effect is enormous. And as the heart, perhaps your heart, takes on board it's reality, then the Father can begin the conversion. How so?

That Jesus Christ replaced you on that cross meant that as your substitute, you in fact were the one hanging there. In Him as He paid and died for your sin, in effect you paid and died for that same sin. What the Law saw was not Him but you and as He died so did the sin in you die. And having paid the price in death, God, the Father, could see all sin erazed from off you, and so could replace your old nature with a new one. You had been accounted righteous before God, born again.

Now every aspect of what I have delivered here is doubly covered both by Law and Spirit. There is no other way that man can be saved. It all is an act of God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost all playing their part in the experience. The recipient in most cases, perhaps all cases, knows nothing of what is happening until it happens. That God has brought them to the point they need help is quite another factor because the act of salvation is all of God.