What's up with the "best" mods?

[RonaldAniban]

Why the hell are those mods not really realistic? I mean seriously.,,5 minutes to kill a general (I mean only the general...without bodyguards) with 30 or more men (happens mostly with cavalries)? 40 minutes of fighting between 200 infantries? Too much smoke dust in melee battles that comes from soldiers' feet even from those who are not even moving (I'm sorry, RS II but it is very true)?

I've played a lot of mods including RTR and RS II, and most battles are very tedious. It's not good to siege an opponent with the battle timer on because you will mostly lose if the number of soldiers are high.

The only "realistic" change that I want in RS II is preventing legionarries to throw spears while in melee. Everything else (I'm referring to the battle mechanics) is not so realistic.

The best mod I've played so far (I've been playing it for 3 weeks now) is XGM although it has unfixed ubrealistic things like the melee spear throwing.

Can someone please recommend a mod to me that makes battles realistic? Oh and another problem in XGM is the bug in wedge formation although I haven't tested yet in other mods to see if it is fixed.
In XGM wedge formation doesn't work well in large/huge unit size, just like in vanilla.

Can someone please recommend a real realism mod for me?

Sorry for my English.

[z3n]

Arthurian total war. But it's hard.

[RonaldAniban]

Arthurian total war. But it's hard.

Why?

Edit: I changed it, and it's not RTW anymore. The campaign starts in 400 AD or something.

[z3n]

Why?

Edit: I changed it, and it's not RTW anymore. The campaign starts in 400 AD or something.

The economic challanges are realistic as are the battles. Arthurian Total War is unique in the way troop types are set up. Elites have few men. Core troop types many. Horsemen few but have many bonuses. Archers and skirmishes many-normal. & so on. It prevents the spamming of elite units and imo is the best prevention tactic for such things.

It's gloriously balanced. I had to make maybe one change at the most and other than that it was the perfection of a lost art. It is also the most atmospheric mod I have ever played.

Each troop type has a certain amount of men. Aulue will usually make up the core of your army (120 men each). Elite troop types are realistic and have 7-40 men each. You have to play it to understand what I'm talking about. Try it out! It's my favourite mod and I've played many. EB, RSII, ATW, SPRQ, XGM, XC, viking invasion, norman invasion, the list goes on but the point remains the same.

It's a mod for RTW:BI not RTW & it is supposed to start in 400AD. AGAIN I shall warn you! IT IS HARD. HARDER THAN ANY MOD I'VE PLAYED! (also a reason I love it).

[RonaldAniban]

What I cared about most is battle realism.

Examples of unrealistic battle features in vanilla:

• Units throwing javelins in melee. (RS II fixed this)
• Wedge Formation not working well in Large/Huge Unit size. (RTR fixed this)
• Too much 2 HP units that make missiles unrealistically weak. (XGM fixed this)
• Slow animations that make battles tedious. (some mods fixed this)

Some mod features that made unrealistic features in vanilla much worse (IMO):

• Unrealistically slower battles (RTR)
• VERY UNREALISTICALLY SLOW BATTLES BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH ARMOUR AND MELEE DEFENSE(RS II)

So, is there a mod that fixes all unrealistic things in battles?

[The Kybrothilian]

What I cared about most is battle realism.

Examples of unrealistic battle features in vanilla:

• Units throwing javelins in melee. (RS II fixed this)
• Wedge Formation not working well in Large/Huge Unit size. (RTR fixed this)
• Too much 2 HP units that make missiles unrealistically weak. (XGM fixed this)
• Slow animations that make battles tedious. (some mods fixed this)

Some mod features that made unrealistic features in vanilla much worse (IMO):

• Unrealistically slower battles (RTR)
• VERY UNREALISTICALLY SLOW BATTLES BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH ARMOUR AND MELEE DEFENSE(RS II)

So, is there a mod that fixes all unrealistic things in battles?

It is realistic that battles are slow. The main slaughter came, when one of the sides began routing.

[RonaldAniban]

It is realistic that battles are slow. The main slaughter came, when one of the sides began routing.

I don't know with the mod you're saying but...

In RTR (or RS II...I forgot) try watching 100 cavalries kill 1 general without bodyguards. IT WILL TAKE 2 MINUTES (estimate). Also, try watching infantry battles in close up in those mods. Wait until 1 man is surrounded by 10 or more. Watch him survive for 60 seconds.


In Arthurian TW, is it like that?

[z3n]

I don't know with the mod you're saying but...

In RTR (or RS II...I forgot) try watching 100 cavalries kill 1 general without bodyguards. IT WILL TAKE 2 MINUTES (estimate). Also, try watching infantry battles in close up in those mods. Wait until 1 man is surrounded by 10 or more. Watch him survive for 60 seconds.


In Arthurian TW, is it like that?

No Arthurian TW isnt like that but its not the type of realism you are looking for either. The battles are very long and require much more skill. The units have differing amounts of HP and attack/armour values that create a realistic battle atmosphere when combined with their animations.

I'm going to point out that there are some things that are very hard to accomplish when playing with unit stats. Try it for yourself. If you like seeing your general die 10 seconds into a key moment during the battle at which point you ordered him to charge the enemy, fine! Simply put it would shock me if anyone managed to make a mod with the realism you look for.

RTW's mechanics simply aren't going to cut it for that sort of realism.

[RonaldAniban]

If you like seeing your general die 10 seconds into a key moment during the battle at which point you ordered him to charge the enemy, fine! Simply put it would shock me if anyone managed to make a mod with the realism you look for.

XGM did. How? The General's bodyguards have an extra unit in front of the general, so if the unit charges the general has a "shield"

And I've been playing XGM for months. The only downside is that they didn't fix Wedge Formation. But even though it doesn't work well in large/huge unit size, I can still do some tricks to make it work.

Yeah. I'm a sort of perfectionist. So now I'm wishing that in the next version of XGM they fix Wedge

Edit: Oh and XGM's melee battles' duration are realistic IMO. When you're surrounded you're gonna die within 5 seconds. Unlike in RS II or RTR, when a unit (mostly a cavalry) gets surrounded by more than 5 men he can survive for 20 seconds. And if a person watches you playing with the fact that he doesn't play RTW, he'll see that unrealistic moment and will say "WTF?".

Sorry for my English.

[Stworca]

Well.. Surrounded units should die fast, that is true, but face to face brawl festivals did take most of the day quite often.

What i would consider most "realistic" would be RSII type of Armor and Defense, but with a very high morale hit when attacked from behind.

Is it possible to change "morale loss" modifiers easily? If yes, then grab RSII and do it yourself.

[RonaldAniban]

I don't need to. XGM is good. If you watch melee battles closely those who get surrounded die fast, but the battles are realistically long enough IMO.

[Hopit]

I don't know with the mod you're saying but...

In RTR (or RS II...I forgot) try watching 100 cavalries kill 1 general without bodyguards. IT WILL TAKE 2 MINUTES (estimate). Also, try watching infantry battles in close up in those mods. Wait until 1 man is surrounded by 10 or more. Watch him survive for 60 seconds.


In Arthurian TW, is it like that?

it took 20 minutes of my 120 triarii to kill the same amount of repuplic cohorts in RS2 (I was at school playing CS 1.6 with friends in computer class, after the recess, battle was still "raging" (recess is 15 mins))

and I actually believed triarii were veterans and had better equipment...
silly me

[Aenima]

They usually make battles longer by lowering lethality. Lethality is what dictates how quickly a unit will die. Morale is dictated by how many men in a unit are dying, how quickly they're dying, and what their kill:death ratio is whilst it all happens. To make battles longer mods lower lethality which stops men from dying all over the place, which is why if a man is surrounded he won't die straight away.

[RonaldAniban]

They usually make battles longer by lowering lethality. Lethality is what dictates how quickly a unit will die. Morale is dictated by how many men in a unit are dying, how quickly they're dying, and what their kill:death ratio is whilst it all happens. To make battles longer mods lower lethality which stops men from dying all over the place, which is why if a man is surrounded he won't die straight away.

I know, sir.

[The_Praetor]

Europa Barbarorum seems to have a similar balance to Arthurian Total War.
In EB the units do die fairly quickly depending on the skill of the enemy. Armor and weapon upgrades do have noticeable effects compared to non-upgraded units.

Generals do however have this same problem. It took me 3 minutes to kill only the Sarmatian general with my general and numerous levy spearmen

[Lordinquisitor]

Sarmatian Generals a heavily armored horsemen, so..

[RonaldAniban]

A heavily armored man can survive a horde of spearmen and cavalries for 3 minutes? Jesus Christ.

[Bonez]

Personally I just like native with a few added touches. I never have issues with generals taking ages to die or battles being to slow.

[TheFoolOnTheHill]

give urbans 0 armor but 10000 attack and watch them fight pesants

[RonaldAniban]

Personally I just like native with a few added touches. I never have issues with generals taking ages to die or battles being to slow.

What's "native"? You mean vanilla?

give urbans 0 armor but 10000 attack and watch them fight pesants

What's your point?