Please help, I don't find any usefull info in guides.

[Misha97]

Hello TATW members/moderators,

I installed TATW a few days ago, great mod. But I have a few questions. Is it possible to make this mod any easier? Or give me some tips? Because I tried playing on easy and VH for both battle/campaign and I end up making roads and markets but my economy is still horrible. I barely get 1k per turn. My army is made out of the cheapest units I have and I do not have enough money to improve my barracks/stables/ranges. Meanwhile, in about 20 turns I see the enemies coming with full armies of about 2000 people with their best units. Also, a city has 1 unit, I lay siege to it and it is suddenly full of about 2500 people. Last but not least, enemy armies ( not bandits ) of about 1500 men pop up in thin air and lay siege to my city. I barely have enough men to defend my cities. Any tips or ways to make this game easier.

Thanks,

Misha97

[Jean=A=Luc]

Welcome to the forum Misha, it would help a lot if you told us what faction you're playing.

[Myshkin]

Hey Misha,

Before building -even the 800gp roads- always check at governor advisor (not the person on top left corner, but where it displays the detailed city status in terms of growth, happiness, order and culture), if the colony will benefit from it or not.

If the building will cause an increase, the projected increase will appear in the window with a transparency.

If the buiding will decrease something (eg corruption), the gain will appear with a blinking transparency.

You will find most provinces seldom need even road upgrades...

Also if you play as Gondor, move your capital to Tarhost on turn 0. That saves 1400gp straight away.

Hope that helps!

[Misha97]

Thank you very much for welcoming me! I tried playing Dale, Gondor, and Harad. Also, Myshkin, thanks for the info, I will try to use those strategies.

[Myshkin]

No problem mate. Glad to help.

You may find warehouse type buildings are the most profitable. But always, always check if the building you will build triggers any increase or not. Then think of the pay off time, and if you think it worths the effort go for it.

Most farms have a pay off around 20-80 turns. Not that bad if you consider they trigger a growth increase, hence the taxes will also increase slightly. So, I would always go for the 800 and 1600 one. Then I would time building the 3200 gp upgrade, and later the 6400gp one.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Also, a city has 1 unit, I lay siege to it and it is suddenly full of about 2500 people.

This is the "garrison script", it spawns units in enemy towns the next turn after you siege them. It's mean to help the AI as it often neglects to defend its cities properly. You should be mindful of this when attacking AI settlements but remember that not all of them have the garrison script, only the more "important" cities like Minas Tirith, Edoras, Minas Morgul etc. have it. You can bypass it if you attack on the same turn you started the siege but, of course, you'll need some siege weapon for that.

If you're having a really hard time you could always try playing an easier faction like Rhun, Mordor or Harad.

[Misha97]

I tried playing for Harard. I barely have enough money to keep 2000 soldeirs working and up to date. Due to my limited amounts of money I can only build the weakest spearmen avaliable and corsairs. I build roads, markets, farms, etc. And yet, I only get 1k gold per turn. Also, at this one city an army of Gondorian troops spawns in thin air each turn. Thanks for info though.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Both Harad's and Rhun's starting positions are in the corner and both face enemies from just one direction (in the beginning). It doesn't get any easier than that. In the case of Harad they have only one hostile neighbour (Gondor) who is already struggling against Mordor.

Did you send out diplomats to establish trade routes with all your allies? Keep the units you're not using in cities to get free upkeep. Don't adopt more generals than you need since they cost you money too (upkeep).

[igotballsofsteel]

u should try as the high elve drop your capital neer the coast bring elrond put your tax at low the time too build port , economy neer the coast take the rebel city to your south 2 more coast city , you dont have to bother whit the north (make alliance whit the dwarf) all your center (eriador) so u ready to start help rohan from is invasion or start a war whit isengard .

(by that time your economy should bring around 5 to 10k a turn whit building build and 1 stack)

[Misha97]

Okay thank you very much guys. I think my problem was that I had too many generals. I also forgot about the diplomats. I thogught we already had trade routes. Its strange how this game is easier on very hard than easy. Im still really mad at how enemy armies apear in thin air near all my cities. I would be considering a patch that makes it easier. This game is harder on easy than it is on very hard in M2TW.

[Mune]

I find the best way to get your early economy going is quick early expansion. By which I mean, put all your initial efforts into capturing the nearest rebel settlements. If you can capture at least two rebel settlements by turn five you'll be much better off, or at least unlikely to have any game-breaking economy problems. Until you reach the point where there's no rebel settlements adjacent to your lands left, try to resist the temptation to build. The only two exceptions I make would be to build mines at locations where it earns you more than 200 per turn, or to build a tier-1 infantry producing building (if it would allow free upkeep units in that settlement). Or in other words, if it wont pay off in under 10 turns don't build it until your done expanding.

The idea is that most of your income is coming from having population under your control who are paying taxes. To use a simple pretend example, lets say you have 5 settlements with a total of 10,000 population. Lets say your considering building a road, which (we'll simplify the math here) will increase the income of that settlement by 20%. Lets say that settlement has a population of 2000. So that's an extra 4% increase to your income overall. Compare that to capturing an additional settlement with 2000 population, which would give you a 20% increase in your overall income. Definitely a better payoff for your money spent, but bear in mind that the payoff difference is less the longer it takes you to build up the necessary army and besiege the settlement (what with upkeep costs). So, build only enough military that you need, keep them where they're most useful (unless they're free upkeep, then keep them put) and disband them if they're no longer immediately needed.

I've done the Harad campaign before, so I'll use that as an example.

Turn 1, I train all military units available in all settlements. Build only as specified above (in Harad's case, I think that would mean just some town watches here and there). Any non-frontline settlement (is bordered only by other settlements I own) gets only a minimal garrison left in it, enough that free upkeep would cover all units left. In the case of the village you start with as Harad, leave one or two units there of spear militia. Any extra units get sent towards rebel settlements I wish to take. Build up armies accordingly (just enough needed to defeat the defending troops) then send them to siege the settlement with a general. Spies can help you quickly capture a settlement with fewer casualties. By turn 5, you should have Khand (to the east) and one or two settlements captured northwest towards Gondor. Having a solid strategy for sieging cities with the units you have definitely helps. If you can minimize how many troops you need to win each battle and the losses you take from them, then expansion goes much quicker. Continue expansion until no nearby rebels remain. Watch out for Gondor unless you make peace with them, as they will come at you every now and then (they can become quite distracted with Mordor, however).

Oh, and one last tip I do with factions that start out with many (more than 2 or 3) generals, such as Harad. Pick your favorite 2 or 3 generals (up to you, I usually do King, Prince and one other if especially good) and move them around to join the besieging armies your also moving around. Any other generals you have, send them on suicide runs. I like to use them to soften up the defenders at these rebel settlements I plan on taking. I'll send them alone to besiege the settlement, at which on their turn they come out and attack. I can always take out a good chunk of their men with a general (especially a cavalry general) and sometimes even win right then if there are few defenders. At which I become annoyed at the general for not dying, but I forgive him for giving me a win and let him live to die another day (probably soon, unless he got enough good traits/ancillaries from the battle). Bottom line; Generals are expensive so only keep the ones you need, especially at the beginning of your campaign when money is tight. Two or three generals is always enough to ensure there's one present in all of your battles. Wait until you have money to spare before you start considering having extras around for governing purposes.

[Misha97]

Thabj you very much Mune. I found this post the most helpfull.

[jản]

- - TATW Strategy Guide - -

that will help you a lot too. especially the economy and buildign section.

>>> ECONOMY / TRADE / MONEY

>>> BUILDING

>>> MILITARY

>>> DEFENCE

>>> EXPANSION

>>> TRAITS / RETINUES

[Misha97]

Thanks, I read that guide already.

[anomaly]

I believe that markets etc. are all a big waste of time. the best way to get money is to expand fast and early, especially if you are evil (fewer trading partners, no ports for some factions).

build your military in bursts. that is, save up 10k money and then build a full stack (or two, depending on your faction) all at once at several cities. you will probably go red for a while afterwards but you can use a full stack to take quite a few cities from a neighbor if you are conservative with your troop count. stick a general with the highest default chivalry in your attacking stack (explained later). utilize the free upkeep if you aren't already to increase your troop critical mass when you build your stacks. if it's too early for good siege (some factions don't get catapults until turn ~40 when the barracks unlock comes) use a lot of spies to try to open up keep doors for your troops to speed up your capture. in fact it might be a bad idea to use catapults at all if you have a lot of distance to travel. as your full stack goes around destroying everyone, make sure you free prisoners and not execute them. i'll explain why in a bit.

if you are interested in building up your cities a bit and increasing revenue, the best thing to get is farms, government buildings, and chivalry on your generals. chivalry increases a cities' growth rate by .5 per cent per point of chivalry; this means a general with 10 points of chivalry can increase a cities' growth rate by 5%, with everything else that might mean 7-8% growth per turn which is absolutely insane - if you work it out on a calculator, that means that you're almost doubling your city's population every 10 turns with 7% growth. there are two easy ways to increase chivalry - release prisoners and lower tax rates. if you do both you can get up to 8 points of chivalry, and if you're lucky you'll pick up the other two points from somewhere else. there are a few other ways to raise chivalry, but they are hit and miss. however, i would like to point out that growing your cities always takes longer than invading new cities, so only do this after expansion becomes difficult.

the only other buildings worth your time in the early game is the port and the mine. build and upgrade ports wherever you can; just the first level port can double your trade revenue. the mine is pretty obvious in that you can tell exactly how long it will take to get a return on it, which is, in most cases, less than 20 turns, which is much better than most of the trade buildings etc.

I also want to point out that unlike others here I have no problem with tons of generals, in fact if I can get lots of generals with high chivalry I absolutely love it. As soon as a general gets 6 or more chivalry from fighting I send him to govern a town.

[Momus]

make sure you free prisoners and not execute them.

I always ransom prisoners. I find that even if the enemy reject the ransom I don't get any bad traits etc and still 9 or 10 chiv. And if they do accept I get cash money

And one small tip, if you take a settlement check all the buildings to check if they are useful to you and you can use them e.g. as dwarves when I take a rhun settlement I always destroy the stables as I cannot use them, if rhun takes back the settlement they have to build it again and I get more cash money (also can use when good factions - troll cages etc)


And if you are in desperate need of money in late campaign raid an enemy capital e.g. as gondor I raided Umbar and the other coastal cities loads of times, initially for the money then just the fun of the blindside move and DESTROY ALL THE BUILDINGS YOU CAN

[jản]

I believe that markets etc. are all a big waste of time. the best way to get money is to expand fast and early, especially if you are evil (fewer trading partners, no ports for some factions).

build your military in bursts. that is, save up 10k money and then build a full stack (or two, depending on your faction) all at once at several cities. you will probably go red for a while afterwards but you can use a full stack to take quite a few cities from a neighbor if you are conservative with your troop count. stick a general with the highest default chivalry in your attacking stack (explained later). utilize the free upkeep if you aren't already to increase your troop critical mass when you build your stacks. if it's too early for good siege (some factions don't get catapults until turn ~40 when the barracks unlock comes) use a lot of spies to try to open up keep doors for your troops to speed up your capture. in fact it might be a bad idea to use catapults at all if you have a lot of distance to travel. as your full stack goes around destroying everyone, make sure you free prisoners and not execute them. i'll explain why in a bit.

if you are interested in building up your cities a bit and increasing revenue, the best thing to get is farms, government buildings, and chivalry on your generals. chivalry increases a cities' growth rate by .5 per cent per point of chivalry; this means a general with 10 points of chivalry can increase a cities' growth rate by 5%, with everything else that might mean 7-8% growth per turn which is absolutely insane. there are two easy ways to increase chivalry - release prisoners and lower tax rates. if you do both you can get up to 8 points of chivalry, and if you're lucky you'll pick up the other two points from somewhere else. there are a few other ways to raise chivalry, but they are hit and miss. however, i would like to point out that growing your cities always takes longer than invading new cities, so only do this after expansion becomes difficult.

the only other buildings worth your time in the early game is the port and the mine. build and upgrade ports wherever you can; just the first level port can double your trade revenue. the mine is pretty obvious in that you can tell exactly how long it will take to get a return on it, which is, in most cases, less than 20 turns, which is much better than most of the trade buildings etc.

I also want to point out that unlike others here I have no problem with tons of generals, in fact if I can get lots of generals with high chivalry I absolutely love it. As soon as a general gets 6 or more chivalry from fighting I send him to govern a town.

GREEN = good advice
RED = bad advice and really bad advice

the green facts are all quite good and are already in the TATW strategy guide.
(there are some more infos about markets, which you should read)

but the red facts - man - this are absolutely the opposite way of the game like
its meant to be played. did you even read the instructions at the beginning of a
new started campaign game. if you play like that, don't comlpain about the game
being not so hard on VH/VH.

i cant beleive sentences like
"as your full stack goes around destroying everyone"
and
"growing your cities always takes longer than invading new cities, so only do this after expansion becomes difficult"
because this is wrong even for the evil factions that follow sauron and melkor.

these are one of the most ridiculous things i heard since TATW was released.
too bad we can't give negative reputaion (anymore). sorry mate - i don't want
to offend you with that but this is totally absurd.

[anomaly]

jan, i love how you just insulted me instead of trying to address my individual points. if you think markets are a good investment in the early game please explain why. i'm not going to bother to read your silly little guide's explanation to why markets are so great because quite frankly, i can see exactly how much benefit a market gives before i build it, and let me tell you, it isn't jack. that strategy guide is crap.

also, i have no idea why you think expanding fast and early is a bad idea. the richest cities you can take are controlled by rival factions, and the more you control the earlier in the game the better off you are. at the very LEAST you should be taking all the bandit towns you can faster than your neighbors.

the reason why i recommend to build your military in bursts is because it is the most cost effective way to quickly get a large invading force. spend 10 turns to build 20 units and you'll be paying upkeep on your units as you build them the whole time. if you just sit and wait for 10 turns and then build your army you'll save money because you've been paying upkeep for a shorter period of time. every turn you have to ask yourself, is your military paying for itself? if not then there's no reason to have it. you can think about the future by deciding to let money and unit slots fill up and then building all of your units in one turn to save upkeep. UNIT UPKEEP IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING IN THIS GAME, DO ANYTHING YOU CAN TO MINIMIZE IT.

besides, the original poster said he/she tried the guides and didn't find crap. i'm offering advice that works for me.

edit: i wanted to point out that the guide you referenced in fact suggests that you not build markets for the first 30-100 turns of the game which pretty much coincides exactly with what i said. i apologize if i spoke in hyperbole but i expect readers to be smart enough to pick out when i am, in fact, doing so...

[jản]

first of all dont start flaming here, okay.

jan, i love how you just insulted me instead of trying to address my individual points. if you think markets are a good investment in the early game please explain why.

by god, just read it - it is explained there.

Click to view content: 

Buildings that maybe don't need to be built and why:

• Markets/Ports/Harbours // (some of them only increase the income very slightly of about 30 to 100 a round)
  but:
  Click to view content: 

  
  You should build at least a market and a port in every settlement, because
  trade goes two ways. you can't just look at the initial income of the settlement that you are
  building trade in. You also have to consider the income boost from trade later on in
  your other settlements because of your investment in trade in that particular settlement.
  you should check the 'settlement info tab' for that.(thanks to Mystific)

i'm not going to bother to read your silly little guide's explanation to why markets are so great because quite frankly, i can see exactly how much benefit a market gives before i build it, and let me tell you, it isn't jack. that strategy guide is crap.

okay if you think that but about 50 +reps and a lot of "thank you" post over there telling the opposite.

also, i have no idea why you think expanding fast and early is a bad idea. the richest cities you can take are controlled by rival factions, and the more you control the earlier in the game the better off you are. at the very LEAST you should be taking all the bandit towns you can faster than your neighbors.

because this is not what all of the TATW developers had in mind and it is told at the beginning of the game. you haven't read it i guess. no blitzing and no rushing.

the reason why i recommend to build your military in bursts is because it is the most cost effective way to quickly get a large invading force. spend 10 turns to build 20 units and you'll be paying upkeep on your units as you build them the whole time. if you just sit and wait for 10 turns and then build your army you'll save money because you've been paying upkeep for a shorter period of time. every turn you have to ask yourself, is your military paying for itself? if not then there's no reason to have it. you can think about the future by deciding to let money and unit slots fill up and then building all of your units in one turn to save upkeep. UNIT UPKEEP IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING IN THIS GAME, DO ANYTHING YOU CAN TO MINIMIZE IT.

sure it is the most expensive thing in the game but the easiest way to get rid of upkeep costs is to disband units not conquer as much settlements and sack them to finance them.

besides, the original poster said he/she tried the guides and didn't find crap. i'm offering advice that works for me.

i see that, but what you gave it not an adive - it is a wrong way of TATW-playing and you should not ue this as an advice for other players because the opposite of what you said is told you on every start of new campaign. and you don't want to give opposite advices of the devs, don't you?



BTW - the strategy guide is a collection of all twcenter tatw user
(actually guys like you too) which i gatherd together with own tactics.


.

[anomaly]

*shrug* i don't care what the TATW developers think. For instance as Isengard one game I had Rohan destroyed before the first advanced barracks was available (turn 40 in this game). God it's awesome to take helm's deep with barely a struggle. This is way more efficient than sitting around and waiting a hundred turns to begin my offensive.

I suppose you're right, not having an army is a good way to not pay upkeep, but this is Total War, not Total Carebears. I play the way I want to play which is with a huge early army and lots of enemies. I probably end up ending the game about a hundred turns before you do, too, which is really up to you, i don't care how you play, i just think it's funny that you're somehow offended that i like to build an early army and rush.

I want to add that the guide also says to maintain monopolies, something which is not even possible in TATW. that guide really is a joke.