A mod idea that is a sister to TATW

[Disastras]

I realize that this is just an idea. I'm not suggesting it be made. I would ask the haters to go easy as this is just something I think sounds fun. I reiterate that I'm not asking anyone to make it. I think it sounds like a great idea and want others to share their ideas as well. That being said:

I think it would be great if permission were given by everyone involved in the TATW mod to use parts of it to create an ultimate fantasy world. I understand there would be some cliches, but man it would be great. The twcenter community as a whole has so many awesome people with awesome ideas that it couldn't be anything but great.

There would be many benefits to this:

First: There wouldn't be endless posts about lore accuracy. As it stands there is always someone that brings up and idea, someone that corrects the lore aspect of the idea, someone that corrects them, and then someone that has 1000's of posts and way too much Tolkien knowledge. The latter usually has the final word.

Second: Units could be created for balance as well as the all important "cool" factor, and not just because there was an obscure reference to them in a book.

Third: It would be absolutely epic!

Etc...

I am a huge LOTR fan. I love the TATW mod as much as anyone. I like the subject matter very much. A fantasy mod would be so great with the units in this mod as they are already done and look so dang good (dwarfs, elves, men, orcs, goblins, trolls, gnomes, etc). The faction ideas are so vast.

Undead Faction:
Can you imagine an undead faction?! Rotting corpses form the ranks of the undead armies and are composed from the dead armies of the other factions.
Units:
Dead hounds roaming the battlefield in their search for living flesh. Zombies, skeletons, worshipers of the dead, ghouls, cannibals, witches, vampires, demons, possessed victims, Frankenstein-like monstrous beasts, black stallions.

Anthropomorphic Faction
A faction of animals that are civilized and act like humans.
Units:
Heavy infantry bears that wear armor and carry massive axes. Wolves and foxes that are skirmish units. Deer archers. Armored eagles in all their majestic beauty. Dogs would make up the general infantry units. Mice could be a peasant unit. The animal hierarchy in nature would be very similar to the hierarchy of this faction.

Human Factions:
There would obviously be men in this world. The geography would determine the evolution of their people.
A viking-like culture would be a must. Savage farmers and craftsmen that live in cold climates.
Civilized men that are generally good. Much like Gondor.
A dark people that are destructive, dark, and violent.

Dwarf Factions:
One group of dwarfs has evolved through their hard labors in the mines. The other group lives above ground and farms for their sustenance. This would create two very different factions.

Elf Faction:
Elves could be almost angelic. They are "snobs" and highly developed. A race of purebred people that look down on all others.

Gnome Faction:
The gnomes, because of their size, have been beat on by all. This has created a very sheltered society. The gnomes are ruthless when it comes to war. They may be small, but are feared by most because of their atrocity's. Picture Vlad the impaler. Skulls line their cities as a warning.

Orcs, Goblins, and Trolls:
Because of their common roots these creatures live amongst each other in civility. They farm and work hard. They are viewed as lesser creatures by most other civilizations although they are quite capable of all things. They don't like war, but because of their biological makeup they are more than a fierce opponent.

Magical Faction:
The magical faction doesn't have spells per se, but can manipulate nature in a magical way. For instance, they have unique armors and weapons created from wood but strengthened by magic to be as hard as mithril. They manipulate horses to become heavenly unicorns. They are master farmers. They have superior senses as they have manipulated their eyes and ears to become larger. When they use fire it burns hotter than normal fire. Etc...

Anyway, I was just thinking how fun this would be. Feel free to add your ideas to this as I think we could all come up with a really great concept.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Disatras very good idea. Start some grunt work thou start writting a book make your own sci fi universe and share it once you think its ready. its hard for people to work on your vision because it is your vision Here is some tips.

Follow two Charachters from your own made factions write about them dont be afraid to get sloopy its okay if its badly written and all filled with spelling errors and inaccuracy you can always start it over once you got a draft. dont let your creativity go to waste creation is a powerful skill that we as men have.

Another tip. break cliches Making all humans bad and Orcs and the elfs allies can be a good thing. in the Plot of Age of Wonders Shadow magic(A game) Humanity was the plague that was taking over the world shuffling elfs orcs goblins and more to the brink annihilation making mankind to be the bad guys it worked for me.

Good vs Evil is old and hardly intressting. Defining something as evil is more due to the lack of understanding as such makes it hollow to the intellcual. Monsters that consumes lifeforms or have some kind of savage nature is the new Evil

[Mune]

Not a bad idea at all, I say. I'll elaborate on a few things I could think of comments for.

First, you seem to imply that it would be a fantasy world devoid of lore-related restrictions. To this I'd say that it would need to have it's own new 'lore' (so to speak) in order to work to the extent that it can. Certainly not impossible, as it's been done hundreds of times before. I'll give an example by saying that many newer fantasy games or writings borrow much from the works of Tolkien, including such widely known names as 'Dungeons and Dragons' or 'Warcraft' (to name but just a couple among hundreds). Most anything having a theme which could be called 'fantasy' can be tracked back to the oldest religions on earth, widely dubbed now as Paganism (a very broad term, I know) or early Greek and Norse mythology (which arguably could fit under the umbrella of Paganism as well). I'll leave the religious debate aside though for another day.

My next point of conversation; I can understand wanting to create a fantasy world devoid of restrictions, but consider the restrictions you are inherently putting in place already. What is an Orc, exactly? Nobody knows for sure, because they don't exist. A common answer would be 'A green monster looking thing' with various other descriptions, all based off of what others have called an 'Orc'. This leads me to believe that, although you would be removing some of the restrictions that Tolkien placed on what an Orc was, what they did, where they were etc. there would remain in each player the bias of what they think an Orc is. You'd end up with many of the same conflicts you see in this forum, like 'This unit should be stronger, or taller, or weaker, or whatever'. Everyone has their own idea of what a particular fantasy creature should be like, be it drawn straight from some game or author or from their own imagination (or a bit of both).

Lastly, and just for fun:

Anthropomorphic Faction
A faction of animals that are civilized and act like humans.

Reminded me of the old Redwall series I grew up on. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Theseus1234]

Reminded me of the old Redwall series I grew up on. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Ohhhh yeah. Good times, although mice and badgers are way too small for this scale.

I can imagine, for the animal faction, that it would be mostly cavalry (bears, horses, large dogs, etc.) without riders and the infantry would be smaller animals with a few big ones thrown in (like, I don't know, otters and badgers? Their heavy infantry should be walking bears)
Naturally, due to their lack of Opposable thumbs, there should be no archers but maybe crossbows and ballistas? Their infantry and cavalry should be top notch, despite a lack of armor or clothing
EDIT: Try to make the "good and evil" of the factions morally ambiguous. It may not succeed but like what was posted before, good vs evil is tried and worn out
EDIT2: Gnomes in the Witcher were the most advanced race of all, while Dwarves were good metal workers. Perhaps this can give Gnomes a technological advantage (early firearms) while Dwarves have the armor advantage (better quality weapons and armor, as well as their natural strength

[Disastras]

Good feedback! Thanks!

its hard for people to work on your vision because it is your vision

I agree. It would be more ideas from the community with votes to determine the course of development.
I also agree with you that cliches are so incredibly boring. They have ruined so many songs, books, films, etc.

Good vs Evil is old and hardly intressting.

I agree. That is why I tried to blur some of the lines. For instance orcs, trolls, and goblins being a farming civilization with a tendency for peace. To be fair, I also never said who was good or who was evil. Because of cliches your mind must've made those assumptions on its own . Perhaps the dead fight as a form of repentance for their previous life. They are trying to rid the world of the terrible things in it. I like this line of thinking...

To this I'd say that it would need to have it's own new 'lore' (so to speak) in order to work to the extent that it can.

Agreed. There has to be a history. I just liked the idea of a community created lore. There are so many storys that have borrowed from Tolkien. I say enough. It's not the Bible, Talmud, or Koran Ya know?

consider the restrictions you are inherently putting in place already.

Very good point! At the time I was thinking that the orcs, goblins, etc were what was already created for the game. But, as you and The-Monetary pointed out, we get to create what they are. They look like the models we already have for them, but we are free to write their story. I fully understand what you are saying though. To use TATW models we would rely on that lore to an extent.
I like the idea of humans being the "virus" of this world. Once slaves, some have evolved to trade and live among the other civilizations. The others seek to dominate and rule. The third remain less evolved; thinking like hunter-gatherers that have evolved into farmers. The other factions are disgusted by them.

Reminded me of the old Redwall series

I haven't seen it, but if is about Anthropomorphism, then it sounds cool. I couldn't help think of the Disney Robin Hood movie lol. I thought about this faction because I am a biology major, and humans act like animals regularly. It would be cool to see the other animals evolve before the primates

mice and badgers are way too small for this scale.

I totally agree. In OUR world they are too small . In this world perhaps they are the size of small children. Still crafty and agile, but larger. Give em a pitchfork, sandals, a felt hat, and a side bag for seeds and such. It's our world.

[Louis Lux]

I really don't get it, there is a endless number of fantasy RTS out there that do what you describe to a certain extent.
The Med2 engine does not handle very well fantasy settings, Tolkien's world is an exception because it's really close to our world, and that's the great thing about it. Why would someone invest so much time trying to make a fantasy mod for Med2 when there are some many great fantasy RTS games available.

[Disastras]

There aren't too many GREAT great fantasy RTS at all, let alone one with options like Med2 (city building, RTS battles, RP elements). In fact it is generally the same sh?t recycled, from one mediocre game into another, with slightly prettier graphics or a new button to push. I suggested creating a world that hasn't been rehashed over and over. A world that is fascinating to read about and be a part of. This engine is unlike any other and modding other games is usually not an option. It would be cool to make a mod using some of the base models already created. TATW clearly has taught that not everyone wants to play humans vs slightly different humans over and over. The masses have spoken that they love the non-human creatures. Going forward in that direction would be a lot of fun and fully "doable" with this engine. I'm not suggesting creating crazy models, but creating characters and creatures that are human-like. This isn't a problem with this engine. Some people on these boards would have no problem creating those. But, to be totally honest, I never expect this to made. I just like the idea and wanted to talk about it with others.

[Lordinquisitor]

There aren't too many GREAT great fantasy RTS at all, let alone one with options like Med2 (city building, RTS battles, RP elements). In fact it is generally the same sh?t recycled, from one mediocre game into another, with slightly prettier graphics or a new button to push.

Moment.. This mod would simply do the same.

However there`s already an mod thats quite similiar to your idea- It`s called "Thera a new beginning" and you should find it somewhere around here.

[Killerbee]

Check Curse of the Warpstorm (link in my sig)

[Renown]

I would tend to agree with lux here...

Disastras, you may have better luck even using ETW for something like this when we are properly able to mod it.

And I'm not a fan of generic fanstasy anyways.. and if you do indeed make a proper storyline then it would likely be bad generic fantasy. Plus with all things generic it would be hard to keep up the enthusiasm for your project as a lot of people will lose interest in watered down options to make everything work properly.

The project itself is a huge idea... and would require a lot of work. I do not try to discourage you from it.. just saying its a warning.. and I would believe the TATW team would likely not respond to this sort of request for using their work until you had a large part of it done.. and as evidence of the quality of your work.

[Aikanár]

... don't forget to add these merry fellows, they are a must have in every generic fantasy world:

[Disastras]

Smurfs = the best thing ever in a TW game! LOL!
This was never meant to get made. The whole point was that it would be easier to make a fun and engaging fantasy with the units that were already made as well as a community like this. I never expected the modders of TATW to give up their work. I never expected anyone to make the mod. I was just thinking about the factions, obviously as I was writing, and haven't spent weeks thinking about this. It struck me the other day how cool these units would be in a more fantasy realm. They are already made for M2 and not for ETW. Obviously ETW would be the ideal engine to create a new mod on (if the tools were ever released ). So, I agree that this would be a huge project and it would be very hard to make a unique fantasy world. There's no arguement.
Anyway, I'll have to check out the suggested mods. Thanks for the heads up guys!

[Aenima]

WarCraft: Total War

Now that'd be interesting as hell, although probably not half as fun as the originals

[DeliCiousTZM]

Aenima ..... Warcraft total war...... is such a brilliant idea. such an incredieble good idea wow wtf thats genious. Lordearon Quel thalas Arathorn . its a perfect Total war mod

[Staffen]

I'd happily play a Warcraft mod.

[Disastras]

It would be cool. Reminds me of the original warcraft.. maybe 2. I loved that my peons could cut down forests I had to mow my lawn 5 times to earn the money to buy that.

[James the Red]

I'm actually making a fictional world in my imagination, hopefully its going to be made into a book/s one day. I would like my story to be made into a book.

I keep thinking about what would happen if somebody made a mod about it. As if that would ever happen.

[Billyfarmer]

Forgive me for being aive sounds like you want to merge the factions from heroes of might and magic with the game total war 2. Would love to see this done, would also like to see the single unit hero such as the mage working like a catapault.

[King Canute]

Reminded me of the old Redwall series I grew up on. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

you know what that means? UBER STRONG BADGER LORDS!!!!
and maybe some wolverines too

[Theseus1234]

you know what that means? UBER STRONG BADGER LORDS!!!!
and maybe some wolverines too

The books about the badgers and their stronghold were easily my favorites, much more exciting than "ragtag group of smaller creatures saving the day". These were full-on massive "rabbit army vs enemy army" BATTLES, WITH A ING BADASS BADGER WITH A GIANT SWORD