Greek faction Border Garrisons

**Total Roach** · July 17, 2009, 10:55 PM

Trying to work out what is best for Frontier garrisons so I would be interested to know which units and how many of each XGM players use to hold their frontier cities with either Macedonia, GCS or TSE.

If different depending on the neighbour please say what you would change. At the moment as Macedonia I have borders with Rome, Carthage (by sea), Thrace, Pontus, Armenia, TSE and the Ptolemaic Empire.

Reason for asking is a matter of income versus security. I want to try and find a good medium between the 2 as I think maybe I get a bit paranoid about be attacked everywhere I keep too large garrisons that cost me money and maybe give nothing back, and a smaller more effective garrison force might be a better way to go. Anyway hope what I'm asking makes sense.

**Sextus Molestus** · July 17, 2009, 11:06 PM

Well, certainly one should take into account whether or not you are at war with a specific neighbor. I personally use the same garrison on my frontier cities as I do with any others in my empire, but that's because I'm a priss who plays on easy and is therefore able to wage war on minimal fronts.

I would say, though, instead of keeping a garrison capable of fighting off an army in each city, just make a half-stack garrison army for security purposes in a region. For example, I noticed you were playing a Macedonian campaign, and had a border with Thrace. Perhaps keep one half-stack army somewhere in the middle of that northern border within a turn-or-two's-walking-distance from Pella, Amphipolis, and Byzantium, so you won't have to spend so much money, but can still effectively defend your borders from a possible attack (this is assuming you are not at war with Thrace, if you are, you should be taking their cities if at all possible, or pursuing a ceasefire).

Also, don't underestimate the power of hoplites. Periokoi, Athenian, and even Greek hoplites can decimate armies very easily if they get silver or gold chevrons and silver weapons and armor. (In your case, Greek hoplites might be your only option, I haven't played Macedon so I'm not sure, but with the bonuses from silver chevron experience and weapons/armor, they are truly Spartans in their own respect). Train a few units by killing rebels that pop up in your empire, and keep retraining them, never mixing them.

And lastly, walls. Walls are very important. Make bigger walls on your frontier. I'm doing a quick reply so I can't make the tongue-sticking-out-smiley.

**DimeBagHo** · July 17, 2009, 11:14 PM

Militia Phalangites are a pretty good deal, and quite effective for defending in sieges. Politikoi (Militia Cavalry) are also a good deal now - useful for keeping rebels/bandits in check if you have a large area to cover. In the east I might go more for Thureophoroi and Politikoi because they are much more useful against the sorts of units you get out that way.

**Total Roach** · July 17, 2009, 11:23 PM

Any reason for choosing Thureophoroi over Thoratikai? Also I don't have the new version yet. I got 5_8_21 and redfox extras working perfectly and I am too worried about messing up the install of the new version to change it

.

Is there an amount of units in a city that makes a faction think twice before attacking?

I like the idea of keeping a half stack somewhere, I am only at war with Rome and TSE at the mo Sextus Molestus.

**DimeBagHo** · July 17, 2009, 11:37 PM

Thureophoroi are a bit cheaper and much easier to recruit and retrain in regions that haven't been colonised. Thorakitai are definitely the way to go if you want an anti-horsearcher army though. I don't know if there is an exact number of units that you need - but a good sized garrison will definitely discourage the AI. Also assassinating any agents that come into your territory will help.

In a recent GCS campaign I kept half stacks of Militia Phalangites, Politikoi, and local units on my northern border for a long time. Enough that I could put together a full stack at short notice. That worked quite well, and when war with Rome did break out the resulting stacks were able to hold them off until I could get an elite stack to the area.

**C-Rob** · July 18, 2009, 09:08 AM

Vs. any faction- Hoplites as an elite(that makes me chuckle to say that), levy or militia phalangites, militia cavalry, and a few peltasts(or Thureophoroi if you want them to actually meet the enemy) and archers. Pretty darn effective.

against eastern though, hoplites are the way to go. They can decimate eastern faction units. I once had one unit of hoplites defend the walls of seleucia. I kept that wall, but lost the city, as my thureaupori on the other side of the city lost that wall and under my hoplites a battering ram worked, but 500 casualties on the assaulting side is 500 kills: )

**Sextus Molestus** · July 18, 2009, 11:33 AM

I agree with Dime about enemy agents; have maybe two spies and two assassins in each frontier settlement to deal with enemy saboteurs (love that word), and even knock out those diplomats if your assassins are experienced enough. But try not to get too risky with your assassination attempts, because if they catch you...that's another enemy to deal with.

EDIT: Actually, wait, I'm rethinking that, and think that perhaps catching agents might cause your faction to declare war on the other faction. This may not be favorable. Any ideas?

**silentsam74** · July 18, 2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sextus Molestus

I agree with Dime about enemy agents; have maybe two spies and two assassins in each frontier settlement to deal with enemy saboteurs (love that word), and even knock out those diplomats if your assassins are experienced enough. But try not to get too risky with your assassination attempts, because if they catch you...that's another enemy to deal with.

EDIT: Actually, wait, I'm rethinking that, and think that perhaps catching agents might cause your faction to declare war on the other faction. This may not be favorable. Any ideas?

Well, that doesn't make much sense.

You'd rather let agents and spies wreak havoc in your lands versus catching and eliminating them because it might cause a war?

I think if the enemy is sending agents of subterfuge in your direction then they are already preparing to make war upon you. So, my strategy is to hang them all from the gallows right at the entrance to the city as a warning to future agents.

**Sextus Molestus** · July 18, 2009, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by silentsam74

Well, that doesn't make much sense.

You'd rather let agents and spies wreak havoc in your lands versus catching and eliminating them because it might cause a war?

I think if the enemy is sending agents of subterfuge in your direction then they are already preparing to make war upon you. So, my strategy is to hang them all from the gallows right at the entrance to the city as a warning to future agents.

Well, when you put it that way with your fancy words, who can't agree with you, Mr. Rhetoric?

But I mean, unrest can possibly be easier to deal with than a full-scale war if your armies are away on another front. And I've never seen the AI actually do much harm with assassins. If what you say about them preparing to go to war is true, then my logic doesn't make much sense unless one wants to prevent war in the short-term. But I was thinking about a border like playing as the GCS and having a border with Thrace as you fight off in Asia Minor; your armies are away, so war would not be favorable, and the border regions are close enough to your homeland that unrest wouldn't be that big of a PO problem.

It all does matter on the specific situation, I guess.

**Scutarii** · July 18, 2009, 08:17 PM

Catching agents is always good, the AI won't attack what it can't see... Just make sure assassination attempts are 70%+.

**Lupus** · July 18, 2009, 09:23 PM

By agents, do you mean all three: diplomats, spies and assassins?

Do diplomats add to corruption when they camp outside a city? If so, they have to go...

**DimeBagHo** · July 18, 2009, 09:41 PM

Diplomats don't exactly add to corruption. They influence culture, which can be a problem in border regions. They pass on information about defenses, which might encourage the AI to attack. When you see them going through the diplomacy offer animation but the diplomacy screen doesn't come up it means they are trying to bribe your settlement. That will make the governor of the settlement more or less corrupt depending on how he responds to the offer.

**Lupus** · July 19, 2009, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by DimeBagHo

Diplomats don't exactly add to corruption. They influence culture, which can be a problem in border regions. They pass on information about defenses, which might encourage the AI to attack. When you see them going through the diplomacy offer animation but the diplomacy screen doesn't come up it means they are trying to bribe your settlement. That will make the governor of the settlement more or less corrupt depending on how he responds to the offer.

And here I am, the gracious host, serving them their last supper....

**Publius Quirinus** · July 23, 2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by DimeBagHo

When you see them going through the diplomacy offer animation but the diplomacy screen doesn't come up it means they are trying to bribe your settlement. That will make the governor of the settlement more or less corrupt depending on how he responds to the offer.

But if the governor accepts a bribe then he (and his city) defects to the bribing faction, right?

/hijack

**DimeBagHo** · July 23, 2009, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Quirinal

But if the governor accepts a bribe then he (and his city) defects to the bribing faction, right?

There are two steps: (1) The governor will either refuse outright, or name a price; (2) If he names a price then the bribing faction might be willing to pay or it might not.

If the bribing faction thinks the price is too high, then you get to keep your city but your governor will most likely get some sort of dishonesty or disloyalty trait. In which case his price might also go down next time.