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  1. #1

    Icon1 MovementPoints Problem

    I have a problem with Effect MovementPoints script command and Deus lo Vult 6.1 mod for Kingdoms. Since Taiji and me seem to be like last few people doing script changes for DLV at the moment and present on forums (and Taiji is doing unit changes almost exclusively) I have nowhere to ask but here so sorry in advance.
    DLV 6.1 is mod for M2TW Kingdoms so it should supposedly support values for MovementPoints higher then 20 (which is + 100% of base movement points if I read it correctly on this forum) or "stacking" of movement points bonus over 20 (say Blessed_With_Vigor gives you 20 , Young gives you 20 and Famous_Racer gives you 15 so that should be 55 - or 275% provided no negative traits or effects affecting movement points BONUS). But no matter how HARD I TRY it doesn't seem to have any affect over 20 (100%) despite if I set it to single trait over 20 or combination of traits over 20. On the other hand negative effects seem to stack much more then - 20 or can be a single effect over - 20 and still affect character with positive movement bonus. But what is interesting is if I make it so the winter gives you Effect MovementPoints -50 (negative) and Famous_Racer gives you Effect MovementPoints 150 (positive) and trait Middle_Aged Effect MovementPoints 3 (positive) and I test it with just those 3 traits (1 negative and 2 positives) it gives same effect as…YOU GUESSED IT same as having just single positive Effect MovementPoints 20 or any combination that would give you total of +100% movement.
    Now I know of other ways to change movements for Family Characters (just interested in Generals and Governors for now) like changing starting_action_points in descr_character.txt to higher value or increasing <cavalry_movement_points_modifier float= ... in descr_campaign_db.xml and I even tried all these effects with increasing starting_action_points 13000 ; default value for all characters and path finding (FROM 130 to 13000) and STILL CAN'T get bloody Effect MovementPoints to give you an effective increase higher then 100% starting action points that is equivalent to value of 20 (I of course always tested it with new turn since I know movement is calculated on start of each turn and again tested EVERYTHING with campaign restart ).

    I am also looking for finding a way around troops slowing down ships. Ships in DLV already have high movement points but loading them with troops (and of course worst of all are siege equipment units) will make transporting from Jerusalem port to South America a logistical nightmare (like 20 turns just to get there I think). If I increase <siege_movement_points_modifier float="0.75"/> to higher value (from descr_campaign_db.xml ) OR increase type
    general
    .
    .
    .
    starting_action_points 120 in descr_character.txt it affects their movement OUTSIDE of ships also and I want them to affect ship movement speeds only (or affect only little both of course while keeping ship speeds
    as high or even higher then they already are).
    And finally last topic
    .
    Since DLV has winter and summer turns you get strange effect during winters that cavalry units are faster then most of your generals and sometimes siege equipment is faster then your old generals (both during winter only of course). In other words regular units move at the same speed during the winter as they do during the summer and I want them to be slower during the winter. Any ideas how to do this?
    (I know I have a ways of making it so the family Generals are always faster then units but I am not asking about this).

  2. #2
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    movement_points_modifier and starting_action_points are global modifiers. You can't split them into 'land' and 'sea' values. When combining characters, the lowest value will be used. There is a positive modifying value when loaded onto ships, but still the above applies.

    Effect MovementPoints = I guess it is like with so many effects, every point is 5%. Guess 100% is the max you can get.










  3. #3

    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by gigantus View Post
    movement_points_modifier and starting_action_points are global modifiers. You can't split them into 'land' and 'sea' values. When combining characters, the lowest value will be used. There is a positive modifying value when loaded onto ships, but still the above applies.

    Effect MovementPoints = I guess it is like with so many effects, every point is 5%. Guess 100% is the max you can get.
    Despite this making me sad thank you.

    Is there a movement_points_modifier that affects only units loaded on ships? And can I make my own movement_points_modifier also can I make my own movement_points_modifier and THEN tie it to certain declared variable (I would declare variable so I could simulate winter movement for units with this together with many interesting things).

  4. #4
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    The movement_points_modifier is in a global file that only gets read at the beginning of the game. I vaguely remember that there was a thread where reloading these files during the game was discussed. there is a console command for that.
    A better way might be to find an identifier for boarded units and then give a temporary trait that might increase the character_action_points.










  5. #5

    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by gigantus View Post
    The movement_points_modifier is in a global file that only gets read at the beginning of the game. I vaguely remember that there was a thread where reloading these files during the game was discussed. there is a console command for that.
    A better way might be to find an identifier for boarded units and then give a temporary trait that might increase the character_action_points.
    Very, very nice thank you (will give you +rep as soon as I find how ).

    Update : I found out how to give rep (seems I was blind before )

  6. #6
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Depending on how you want to use MovementPoints, you can give it starting values higher than what you consider 'normal' and then give every character a trait which gives them enough negative % to get it back to 'normal'. That would allow you to increase the relative increase of MP because just removing the initial negative provides a boost, so you can boost up to the actual start and then up to 100% over that. Naturally this would decrease the options on the other side of the spectrum.

    I'm also not quite sure what it means when it says +X%. Is 100 base with +5% = 105? If that's the case then keep in mind that with every increase in the base it increases how much 'real value' each 5% is worth, since 5% of 100 is 5 MP but 5% of 1000 is 50 MP.

    As for ship speed you could try the descr_ship.txt (probably doesn't exist in mod folder so will have to look in base files), but I've never toyed with it as my understanding is a lot of those values are junk values. I'm pretty sure you can also give the MovementPoints VnV to admirals. There's the scripting condition I_AtSea which checks if a character is at sea, as well as I_AgentSelected admiral, but the problem of determining if there's units on the boat or which particular boat the character is on is still present.

  7. #7
    makanyane's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer View Post
    Depending on how you want to use MovementPoints, you can give it starting values higher than what you consider 'normal' and then give every character a trait which gives them enough negative % to get it back to 'normal'.
    Doesn't that mean though that an army that doesn't have a general character with it (which therefore can't carry a trait) will end up moving further than your average army with a general - that always struck me as very illogical.

    EDIT: also beware of giving all your 'admirals' a trait - when a boat / fleet is created although it can pick up traits its 'admiral' is really more like a captain - his name will disappear if his boat is merged into another fleet. As soon as the captain type 'admiral' gets a trait he becomes more like named character - and M2 seems to have same bug as RTW for that, once he's got a trait his ship can't be merged into another real admiral's fleet. So if you give a trait to all 'admirals' as they are created you'll never be able to merge independently built boats into fleets.

  8. #8

    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Doesn't that mean though that an army that doesn't have a general character with it (which therefore can't carry a trait) will end up moving further than your average army with a general - that always struck me as very illogical.

    EDIT: also beware of giving all your 'admirals' a trait - when a boat / fleet is created although it can pick up traits its 'admiral' is really more like a captain - his name will disappear if his boat is merged into another fleet. As soon as the captain type 'admiral' gets a trait he becomes more like named character - and M2 seems to have same bug as RTW for that, once he's got a trait his ship can't be merged into another real admiral's fleet. So if you give a trait to all 'admirals' as they are created you'll never be able to merge independently built boats into fleets.
    Oh yes I have noticed side effects of this even before I wrote a line of scipt (ME HATES IT , FILTHY LITTLE HOBBITS)
    Thank you.

  9. #9
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Doesn't that mean though that an army that doesn't have a general character with it (which therefore can't carry a trait) will end up moving further than your average army with a general - that always struck me as very illogical.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the descr_character also defines what it calls "general", which is what we consider to be a 'captain'. All you would need to do is make the general base movement be the base movement of the family members minus the 30%.

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    EDIT: also beware of giving all your 'admirals' a trait - when a boat / fleet is created although it can pick up traits its 'admiral' is really more like a captain - his name will disappear if his boat is merged into another fleet. As soon as the captain type 'admiral' gets a trait he becomes more like named character - and M2 seems to have same bug as RTW for that, once he's got a trait his ship can't be merged into another real admiral's fleet. So if you give a trait to all 'admirals' as they are created you'll never be able to merge independently built boats into fleets.
    Yes, that is the #1 issue with any form of naval scripting is that fleets with admirals can't be merged. It's an extremely curious system because family members can merge one another and admirals should obviously have ranks to 'supersede' one another. I imagine it's because CA couldn't figure out a way to keep the integrity of two admirals in a fleet stored, though that's a rather lame duck excuse for lacking that functionality.

  10. #10

    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer View Post
    Depending on how you want to use MovementPoints, you can give it starting values higher than what you consider 'normal' and then give every character a trait which gives them enough negative % to get it back to 'normal'. That would allow you to increase the relative increase of MP because just removing the initial negative provides a boost, so you can boost up to the actual start and then up to 100% over that. Naturally this would decrease the options on the other side of the spectrum.

    I'm also not quite sure what it means when it says +X%. Is 100 base with +5% = 105? If that's the case then keep in mind that with every increase in the base it increases how much 'real value' each 5% is worth, since 5% of 100 is 5 MP but 5% of 1000 is 50 MP.
    100% of increase is 100 of base points increase from what I have observed it is always calculated as multiplying flat value then subtracting it or adding it to a base. Base of flat value is taken FROM starting_action_points (from descr_character.txt) for type of character so if starting_action_points are 100 then 5% would be just 5 (total 105) but if it is 500 then 5% is 25 (total 525)and of course 4 traits adding say effects Effect MovementPoints 1 and one trait with Effect MovementPoints -10 would be (for 500) 500+5+5+5+5-250= same as just 270 starting_action_points but then again I could be mistaken.
    I did think of trying to increasing base starting_action_points and giving them traits that affect Effect MovementPoints in a negative way but since there are so many traits in DLV I think I might end up with a headache checking every possible combination (so I don't end with any character that has more then -50% total negative effect for movement (or halved movement).

  11. #11

    Default Re: MovementPoints Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer View Post

    As for ship speed you could try the descr_ship.txt (probably doesn't exist in mod folder so will have to look in base files), but I've never toyed with it as my understanding is a lot of those values are junk values. I'm pretty sure you can also give the MovementPoints VnV to admirals. There's the scripting condition I_AtSea which checks if a character is at sea, as well as I_AgentSelected admiral, but the problem of determining if there's units on the boat or which particular boat the character is on is still present.
    I did notice I_AtSea command in M2TW Ultimate Docudemons 4.0 but I have not found a way to check if there are troops on board and to add them movement points (then again I have been looking at docudemons for only few minutes so thank you for saving me trouble since I would have spent a lot of time trying to find if it was possible so if no one found it yet I guess I should focus on something else . Thank you again.

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