F-22 bugs, expense, cancellation, mobile phone networks can detect and track them and other general suckage

[Heinz Guderian]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...903020_pf.html

The F-22 programme: "too big to fail, that is, to be cancellation-proof."

interesting bits

The aircraft's radar-absorbing metallic skin is the principal cause of its maintenance troubles, with unexpected shortcomings -- such as vulnerability to rain and other abrasion -- challenging Air Force and contractor technicians since the mid-1990s, according to Pentagon officials, internal documents and a former engineer.

Clouds: Al-Qaeda's new air defense system.

While most aircraft fleets become easier and less costly to repair as they mature, key maintenance trends for the F-22 have been negative in recent years, and on average from October last year to this May, just 55 percent of the deployed F-22 fleet has been available to fulfill missions guarding U.S. airspace, the Defense Department acknowledged this week. The F-22 has never been flown over Iraq or Afghanistan.

55 percent is almost getting to North Korean standards for maintenance.

"It is a disgrace that you can fly a plane [an average of] only 1.7 hours before it gets a critical failure" that jeopardizes success of the aircraft's mission, said a Defense Department critic of the plane who is not authorized to speak on the record. Other skeptics inside the Pentagon note that the planes, designed 30 years ago to combat a Cold War adversary, have cost an average of $350 million apiece and say they are not a priority in the age of small wars and terrorist threats.

1.7 hours eh? I think it might need another microsoft patch. Luckily the Taliban hasnt got an airforce that can field a plane that has more than 1.7 hours of fuel.


OK Abdul, stand down its been 110 minutes. Besides, CNN said to expect showers later.

Darrol Olsen, a specialist in stealth coatings who worked at Lockheed's testing laboratory in Marietta, Ga., from 1995 to 1999, said the current troubles are unsurprising. In a lawsuit filed under seal in 2007, he charged the company with violating the False Claims Act for ordering and using coatings that it knew were defective while hiding the failings from the Air Force.



He has cited a July 1998 report that said test results "yield the same problems as documented previously" in the skin's quality and durability, and another in December that year saying, "Baseline coatings failed." A Lockheed briefing that September assured the Air Force that the effort was "meeting requirements with optimized products."

So this Danish-sounding d00d, sued Lockheed for what he knew was BS. Read the rest of the article for more F-22 fail. Lets not forget the time when a squadron of them "switched off" when they crossed the International Date Line.



HEY DANISH GUY. You sure you coated these things in that anti-radar paint that totally works? What do you mean "lol"?

In conclusion, buy:



Eurofighter: Will fly for more than 1.7 hours.

[Banana Jelly]

Dont get the points in the picture but, I agree. I would be hoping for a fighter that is like the one that the Nazi's were planning to build but couldnt becuase there wasnt time. It looked like some bat or something with wings. That crap is fast compared to the fighters the allies had.

I want something like that but improved

[Heinz Guderian]

Dont get the points in the picture but, I agree. I would be hoping for a fighter that is like the one that the Nazi's were planning to build but couldnt becuase there wasnt time. It looked like some bat or something with wings. That crap is fast compared to the fighters the allies had.

I want something like that but improved

lol. k you get rep

[Lützower]

Dont get the points in the picture but, I agree. I would be hoping for a fighter that is like the one that the Nazi's were planning to build but couldnt becuase there wasnt time. It looked like some bat or something with wings. That crap is fast compared to the fighters the allies had.

I want something like that but improved

Actualy the American Stealth Fighters are already an improved and up to date version of the German WWII Stealth Fighter prototype.



http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-fighter-3942/

[mrmouth]

It looked like some bat or something with wings. That crap is fast compared to the fighters the allies had.

It was faster than the me-262, but not a whole lot. And in the end, allied pilots adapted their tactics, and were successful against them. The P-51 specifically, was very effective.

The europhiles will stand by their plane. The Americans will stand by theirs.

One poster had it correct. The OPS tempo (without a doubt the highest in the world) of USAF coupled with the rising overall costs of maintenance to the entire fleet has stressed the inventory. So it is no surprise to see the maintenance metrics go down. The rest of this thread is dick-waving.

Yeah.

The F-22 wasn't designed to be a workhorse fighter. At this point, it is more of a deterrent. Sent to regions, like East Asia, when NK starts acting up.

The real beauty of the F-22 has nothing to do with stealth, but its avionics package, and maneuverability. Evidence of this, is the proposed sale to Japan, that would leave the F-22 intact, aside from the avionics.

This is a jet that can engage more targets, further away, than any other on the planet. You're talking the ability to engage more than a dozen enemy jets, long before they even scope you.

[Helm]

An improved Nazi fighter with bat wings? Sounds good to me.

[Banana Jelly]

Hehe, if i had the i be the master of the skys.

[Heinz Guderian]

Hehe, if i had the i be the master of the skys.

I actually like where your heads at. Esp with the Nazi bat-plane idea.

[Space Wolves]

Next up...F-23...

Oh wait.. f-35!

[Erik]

The F-22 isn't crap.
In fact, it's very good at what it's designed for: fight off any plane Russia might build in the coming 20 years in case of WW III.

OK, maybe WW III with Russia wasn't as likely a scenario compared to low-tech wars against 3rd world countries.....

[Heinz Guderian]

The F-22 isn't crap.
In fact, it's very good at what it's designed for: fight off any plane Russia might build in the coming 20 years in case of WW III.
.

As long as the Russians agree to fight on clear cloud-free days and promise to take a break after 1.7 hours so they can fix the things again. Also, about the invisible paint thing..well more specifically about the "in" in the phrase "invisible paint"..yeah.

[Erik]

As long as the Russians agree to fight on clear cloud-free days and promise to take a break after 1.7 hours so they can fix the things again. Also, about the invisible paint thing..well more specifically about the "in" in the phrase "invisible paint"..yeah.

Point is: the F-22 is way better than anything the Russians can throw at it.

1.7 hours should be plenty of time to shoot down that first massive wave of planes flying towards Alaska.
Especially with Palin keeping a constant eye on the horizon.

My only points of critique are:
- the F-22 is overkill, they could have ensured air superiority at 1/10 the cost (but then the weapins loby is very powerful)
- WWW III is very unlikely, the cold war is over.

[ShockBlast]

[Banana Jelly]

Dont you hate it when that happens?

[ShockBlast]

Dont you hate it when that happens?

Fixed it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Enough said.

The F-117 it's a ground attack plane not a multirole.

[MaximiIian]

The F-117 it's a ground attack plane not a multirole.

Which is its major problem. Fighter without a gun = suck. The production history of the F-4 Phantom II proved that.

Damn thing should have been called the A-117 instead.

[Caelius]

*Reads OP*

*Realizes that Heinz is just quoting a highly sensationalized article in a highly disputed (and even more highly bureaucratic) subject within the Pentagon-Capitol Hill defense nexus, and doesn't know what he's talking about, as shown and expected*

*Thinks about posting quotes from the F-15A's detractors in 1976 after it entered service and how such criticisms are virtually the same as those being made against the F-22 today, in order to debunk ShockBlast and Panzerbear (who also don't know what they're talking about)*

*Recalls how the F-15A was far better then any other fighter in the world when it first rolled out, so much so that certain morons insisted the USAF could get by with upgrades of existing planes. Ultimately the military successfully defeated those critics, resulting in a USAF that is still proud to fly the F-15 with confidence 37 years later.*

*Knows the same series of events will take place with the F-22 (and that more will be built)*

*Decides against it and says to hell with it, the F-22 still kicks the out of anything else flying in the skies, and will probably do so for the next 35 years or more*

*Tickles himself knowing that 1 F-22A is rated to be the equivalent of 12 F-15Cs in combat; or that real-world exercises (Northern Edge, Alaska, 2008) pitted a flight of 4 F-22s against as many as 48 various hostile aircraft, with the F-22s winning....without using their stealth*

Meh, I see this turning into:

Czar: But, but, but the S-400 can hax da stealth. Dumb Americans, Russia STRRONG!...
Caelius: Based on what?...
Czar: .... (Rant)

And since both America and Russia has been mentioned, this will turn into a WWII Mudfight... Might as well find me some popcorn.

Touche.

I'm not really going to debate these people though (edited out mild insult --vp). Which i'm sure they'll make.

The F-22 needs no defenders, its better than all its competition.

....Seriously, nothing else needs to be said on the matter.

Enough said.

Was retired last April.

Some have even been scrapped.


As for the rest:

Unlike most other Air Force aircraft which are retired to Davis-Monthan AFB, the F-117s are being retired to the Tonopah Test Range Airport. At Tonopah, their wings will be removed and the aircraft will be stored in their original hangars.

You can detect Stealth Fighters using mobile phone masts. The Brits know it, the Russians know it and the Americans know it. Fact.

People in Sudan could detect Stealth Fighters and if they had an airforce they could direct them onto them cos the NightHawk sux ass dogfighting.

[ShockBlast]

The F-22 needs no defenders, its better than all its competition.

Really?Are you sure about that?

[Panzerbear]

I'm not really going to debate these people though, just laugh at their displays of ignorance in response to this post. Which i'm sure they'll make.

there is nothing to debate over. at this point, F-22 is by far the best jet fighter on the planet, simply because at this point nobody was able to roll out a 5th generation jet fighter other than Americans (with their $500 billion defense budgets).

Russian generals promised to launch the first prototype of their 5th generation fighter later this year. it will be few years of testing and upgrades, but Russians will come up with a solid response to both F-22 and F-35, I guarantee it. we will discuss it further, when we will actually see it flying, until then, there is no point in arguing.

back in the days, F-15 was also marketed as the best damn jet fighter on the planet, period. and then the Soviets rolled out their Su-27 few years later and American jaws began dropping. this is simply a nature of the beast - something is the best only as long as the competitors don't introduce a better jet fighter. and by nature of competition, it is doomed to happen.

just look what is currently happening. Europeans and Americans are working on F-35, Russians and Indians are working on PAK-FA, even Chinese are working hard on their 5th generation fighter. the only thing that is certain is that nobody can stop the progress. the result will be that each side will come up with a decent jet fighter than would be roughly equal in combat capabilities.

[Haakon]

I love it. Claims based on 'a source'. A source say Godzilla was spotted off the coast of Japan. A source say Bin Laden is hiding in Luxemburg. A source say Elvis was kidnapped by aliens.




Further more, comparing the F22 with the Eurofighter is like comparing an axe with a sword. It's pointless.