OotMM Revolt Proof?

[P|A|ntZ]

I have searched and haven't found any info on this topic. Playing as Rohan, I have a respectable number of spies and often use them to cause unrest in evil settlements. This is of particular use if they are not actively at war with me, and I can get the settlement to rebel and then take it, thereby avoiding all out war with the evil faction that is still neutral to me.

I have used this successfully on several factions, but I have noticed that I cannot do it successfully against an OotMM settlement for some reason. I can get the order level to drop down to a desired level of about 55% to 65%, and get the rebellion icon with the description that the settlement's residents are rebelling, and may soon enter open revolt.

It never happens with them.

The settlement will stay at that same level for many turns, and then quite suddenly (without any apparent recruitment of new enemy units or repairs to buildings I have sabotaged) the order level rockets up to over 100%!

This has made me wonder if there is some sort of anti-revolt script at work here. Has anyone else successfully made an OotMM sellement revolt to a rebel settlement?

[MasterBigAb]

I have searched and haven't found any info on this topic. Playing as Rohan, I have a respectable number of spies and often use them to cause unrest in evil settlements. This is of particular use if they are not actively at war with me, and I can get the settlement to rebel and then take it, thereby avoiding all out war with the evil faction that is still neutral to me.

I have used this successfully on several factions, but I have noticed that I cannot do it successfully against an OotMM settlement for some reason. I can get the order level to drop down to a desired level of about 55% to 65%, and get the rebellion icon with the description that the settlement's residents are rebelling, and may soon enter open revolt.

It never happens with them.

The settlement will stay at that same level for many turns, and then quite suddenly (without any apparent recruitment of new enemy units or repairs to buildings I have sabotaged) the order level rockets up to over 100%!

This has made me wonder if there is some sort of anti-revolt script at work here. Has anyone else successfully made an OotMM sellement revolt to a rebel settlement?

You hurt me buddy...it sounds like a very cowerd strategy
I guess nobody else has this problem, cause eveybody figts them as it's meant to be

[P|A|ntZ]

Hahaha. Well, from an RP and lore point of view, I look at it as sabotaging and terrorizing the orcs to the point where they panic and lose all chain of command and order. They are cut off from their dark empire and word never reaches their overlords what happened to them. See? All better. Have a cookie.

[Theodotos I]

Reminds me of my anti-Seleukid strategy a year or so ago, playing as the Pahlava of EB.

[Black_ice_Spain]

rofl, i didnt know that spies could cause that 11, at least not being effective xD.

maybe they lower taxes? they prolly have too much order in their zones, and they can lower taxes when needed (?)

[Quirl]

The OotMM rock, that's why you can't defeat them so easily.

But seriously, I'd just check for the usual stuff which effects public order; which I'm sure you have already, but here's a small list:
- Distance to capital (Moria is pretty close to the other regions)
- Taxes
- Governors
- Garrisons (the OotMM can have very large garrisons at a much lower cost than other evil factions)
- Buildings

P.S.
I don't really think it's cheap to use your spies and assassins in such a way. Inciting uprisings are these that happen in real life all the time (look at the cold war), and diplomat's bribe ability is so worthless that spies and assassins really take over that role of alternative warfare.

[Disastras]

I like your strategy P|A|ntZ. I'm so used to my armies continually stomping stack after stack of the dirty bastda's that I didn't even think of the old sleuth route. One's imagination might say that the orcs lack of organization actually helps them to not revolt. For instance, they are hiding in mines or out scavenging and therefore aren't massing together to revolt against the alpha orc. Also, they have a mass of their army made up of slaves that are so terrified they'd rather die on the battlefield than defy the orc captors. Just thinking about stuff late at night...

[Beregond]

Yeah,I have destroyed the Turks one day using hundreds of spies and assassins.... epic,go Byzantium!

[Skeleton Of The West]

The settlement will stay at that same level for many turns, and then quite suddenly (without any apparent recruitment of new enemy units or repairs to buildings I have sabotaged) the order level rockets up to over 100%!

The reason for this is that the AI lowered taxes in that settlement, causing a higher public order.

Yeah,I have destroyed the Turks one day using hundreds of spies and assassins.... epic,go Byzantium!

Yeah I did that too, and then destroyed Byzantium the same way , Kingdom of Jerusalem FTW!

[Gothic Revenge]

Well, this is Total War not Total Diplomacy..... I know of that strategy but I don't like it.

[Black_ice_Spain]

diplomacy its 70% of war and thats not diplomacy xD, its secret services

[Space Voyager]

Well, examples from history are well known. Like knowing how to operate Enigma, not letting the Germans to know about that fact and feeding them wrong info.

Things like that can tip the war, but they can't destroy a state/faction as they can in M2TW. So I don't count this "strategy" as a valid one.

Naturally, it is enabled so whomever likes it can use it all he/she wants.

What is more disturbing it that this strategy would be completely ineffective if only the AI used some spies of its own to protect the cities. Sadly it is way to idiotic to counter this simple thing.

[Quirl]

Things like that can tip the war, but they can't destroy a state/faction as they can in M2TW. So I don't count this "strategy" as a valid one.

French spies promoted, supplied, and trained patriots during the American Revolution.

Soviet spies encouraged and inflamed the Spanish civil war.

American spies supplied Afghan insurgents against the Soviet Union forces supporting the Marxist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan government in Afghanistan.

Iran accuses US and British intelligence agencies of inciting the election protests and riots in their country today.

Then, of course, there was the entire Cold War that made and broke nations (the largest, obviously, being the Soviet Union).


Those are all that I can recall off the top of my head...

[Space Voyager]

Yes... And where is your proof that spies were instrumental, key element in winning any of these?

They had a role but war had to be won by warfare in all these instances.

And calling Cold War an actual war is ridiculous. This was an ideological, technological and economic competition, NOT won by spies. EDIT:And did not make Russians extinct...

What you can do in TW series is kill off a faction (read: nation) without a fired shot, just sending spies. And even that is only possible due to stupidity of AI.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, it just means I won't do it. Games are meant to be fun, so whatever makes it fun for you is ok.

[Billyfarmer]

Call me a doubter but spies are always claiming stuff that would have probably happened anyway. Eg soviet union break up various civil wars and the afghans winning another war.
Spies really only work well in civilised areas where people obey the rule of law and do as expected. I figure the average OOtmm city is much like Iraq, Afghanistan and palestine would be if ice was all that was available to eat, everyone had to carry a gun at all times and might was right all of the time. Eg you own everything that you can hold.
What hope have spies got in this situation, when no-one keeps there word and corruption is a way of life spy networks are like conventional warfare tactics in a guerilla urban war.

[Muffer Nl]

Call me a doubter but spies are always claiming stuff that would have probably happened anyway. Eg soviet union break up various civil wars and the afghans winning another war.
Spies really only work well in civilised areas where people obey the rule of law and do as expected. I figure the average OOtmm city is much like Iraq, Afghanistan and palestine would be if ice was all that was available to eat, everyone had to carry a gun at all times and might was right all of the time. Eg you own everything that you can hold.
What hope have spies got in this situation, when no-one keeps there word and corruption is a way of life spy networks are like conventional warfare tactics in a guerilla urban war.

Porn...

[Space Voyager]

Porn...

I think you posted in the wrong forum.

[Quirl]

Yes... And where is your proof that spies were instrumental, key element in winning any of these?

Well, training, supplying, inciting, and spying for someone seems pretty important to me. But as far as solid evidence goes, well, I'm not an expert on the American Civil War or some of the other conflicts I mentioned. However, I had to once research the American involvement in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation there. During that time, the rebels were supplied numerous weapons and equipment. But one of the most important pieces of equipment they were given was the Stinger surface-to-air rocket launcher. Before that, it was literally impossible (except through heavy flak cannons left behind from WWII!) to shoot down the advanced Mi-24 and Mi-8 assault helicopters the Soviets used to dominate the skies. However, not only did the introduction of the stingers help the Afghani rebels to combat these helicopters, it made the country a virtual graveyard for them and was one of the (if not the) key turning points in the war.

Of course, I realize that spies alone did not accomplish this (though they are the ones who smuggled the weapons in, trained the rebels how to use them, and provided information back on their successes) but since in Medieval 2 you can't even enter into diplomat relations with rebels (except through bribing which is, honestly, worthless) using spies is a simple enough alternative in applying these cold war-like tactics.

[anomaly]

Yes... And where is your proof that spies were instrumental, key element in winning any of these?

well there's the, y'know... whole soviet nuclear research program..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_atomic_bomb_project

[Muffer Nl]

No, some claim that spies though of it to distract soldiers from their duty...