another reason why religions have no place in society

[Don in the North]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...re-call-letter

A NSW Catholic private school has come under attack for publishing an "anti-gay letter" in its newsletter which activists say calls for the murders of homosexuals.
Xavier High School in Albury printed the letter, written by former student Matt Price, in the latest edition of its alumni newsletter Xavier.
Mr Price said he was "trying to make the world free of homosexuals", who live lives devoted to "sex and drugs".
"The gay side of life, all it's ever been is going out and doing that sort of stuff … the world just really doesn't need that," he said.
Mr Price said he was a "cured" homosexual and now lived in Noosa working as a registered nurse.
Anti-discrimination campaigner Garry Burns blasted Xavier High's decision to publish the letter, saying he understood Mr Price's letter to mean that gays and lesbians should be killed.
"It says he wants the removal of homosexuals from the face of the earth and there's only one way to interpret that," Burns told ninemsn.
"There are people out there who will express that endorsement through bashings, murder and all sorts of things … they'll go out and say the Catholic Church is right: 'let's get a poof and kill him'."
The 52-year-old, who last year sued 2UE presenter John Laws after he called gay men "pillow-biters" on-air, said Xavier High officials "ran away and hid like Burmese kittens" after he asked them to apologise and make a $5000 donation to gay and lesbian support group Twenty10.
Burns said he hoped media reports, including one by gay and lesbian publication SX News, would pressure the school into making a statement.
An online copy of the newsletter on the school's website has been changed to remove all of Mr Price's comments about homosexuality.
Xavier High headmaster Neville Powells could not be contacted for comment although he addressed the remarks in a recent student newsletter.
"We live in a country where free speech is available to all," Mr Powells said.
"That said, I apologise for any offence caused — certainly none was intended. "Unfortunately on this occasion some elements of the published letter were not detected during the editing process and were included in the distribution."
A spokeswoman for the Catholic Schools Diocese of Wagga Wagga director of schools Alan Bowyer said she was unable to comment because the letter was "with the solicitors".

"cured" homosexual my ass. this guy is flat out lying on that regard, just like the rest of the "cured" homosexuals who think fear(religious imposed fear of an imaginary friend) is enough to keep them in line. apparantly fear isnt enough to keep them from talking about breaking one of the ten commandments.

this is where religion constantly crosses a line. this is not the first time something like this has happened, in fact its not even the 100th.
constantly pushing members of their religion to "take action" or "take this nation back for christ" (yes it happens in australia and other non american countries too).

how long before things get out of hand?
how long before someone gets hurt? oh wait they already have, just lastmonth(or two?) an abortion doctor was murdered because of the work he did, by a christian zealot.
muslims behead people on a regular basis, jews are violating rules of engagement and massacreing civilians of another religion, because of conflicting religious views.
satanists have murdered potential new members several times in the last few months, in a misguided attempt to reach out to an imaginary bad guy.

when does it end?
when will religion finally be banned, so people just have their beliefs and faiths , without the organized need to impose these beliefs and faiths on others?

[Tigrul]

pfff.... While I find that newsletter disgusting, I totally support their freedom of speech, I actually find it healthy for them to exercise it so that us, mentally sane humans, can know who the idiots who harbour such ideas are. I also find your request to ban religions to be a silly one, for reasons already discussed in the banning religion topic. I also want religions to be nothing more than a painful and shameful smear on humanity's history, but I think that the only viable method is to do so by completely respecting the rights and liberties of others and only promoting reason in a non-hateful way.

[0N3]

yes, i know. All the christians i know kill abortion doctors, Islam is the reason for death penalty, all jews are living in Israel and all the jews in Israel support the actions of the Israeli goverment(sick accusations btw), all satanists go around killing to please Satan... Just like those who stuff like that are extremists, so are you

[Don in the North]

thats ok tigrul, i find your protecting the very thing thats going to eventually overwealm society and remove people who think like you do, and think like i do very silly too. removing the organization structure is far from silly. imagine how many REAL charietys that dont hoard money the way the catholic church does will pop up?
i also find it silly that you dislike my right to freedom of speech but you are fine with them putting out school newsletters to impressionable young teens requesting a violation of their commandments to commit murder and prejudice.

hey on3 how many people have i killed? or asked to be killed
how have i shown bigotry in saying these religious people dont belong in society(they do, just not their organization structure), can you show me contrary evidence for religious fundamentalists which number in the billions?

also i find your implying that i am extremist VERY insulting. i suggest you remove that insult.

[Tigrul]

DoA, I really despise organized religion, and for certain religious organizations, it goes so far as being disgusted by them. But no matter how strongly I dislike them, the thing I dislike even more, the thing I dislike most of all, is people advocating for the limitation or removal of rights and liberties. I am quite convinced that the best way for atheism to triumph is precisely through respecting rights and liberties.

[elusivecorn]

DoA, I really despise organized religion, and for certain religious organizations, it goes so far as being disgusted by them. But no matter how strongly I dislike them, the thing I dislike even more, the thing I dislike most of all, is people advocating for the limitation or removal of rights and liberties. I am quite convinced that the best way for atheism to triumph is precisely through respecting rights and liberties.

Very well stated, people have a right to their opinions what they want. If everyone respects each others rights and liberties this world will be a much better place. It would be a pretty ed up world if governments limited peoples rights to the extent to have religion.

[Don in the North]

perhaps, i respect that. but im convinced everyday, that much more by consistant reactions like the news report, as well as the bs i hear coming out of peoples mouths both rl and on the net, that eventually some heavy is gonna rain down and its not gonna be books being burnt by zealots.
its gonna be humans, again.
i really do hope this isnt the case. i really do. but how many people have to die or have their lives impacted in a very negative way by those who disagree so strongly that they feel the need to lash out violently with intent to destroy their opposition?

i dont wish harm on those people i oppose. on the contrary. i feel they need to be helped and there is this organization structure that prevents treatment. if its removed, everyone can be better off for it. thats my opinion

[Roman Knight]

First of all, this is Xavier we're talking about

http://www.theage.com.au/national/xa...1022-55t3.html

Secondly, this is a single student who doesn't represent the views of the school.

Thirdly and most importantly, however, religion doesn't make people intolerant and removing it won't stop intolerance or even lower the amount of it around. It's awfully naive (can't find the accent thingy) to assume that religion causes any thing bad in society, it just turns it into a community and occasionally directs it.

[Tankbuster]

I think it might very well be possible to 'cure' certain homosexuals, but it's disgraceful to even suggest that people should try.

It's awfully naive (can't find the accent thingy) to assume that religion causes any thing bad in society, it just turns it into a community and occasionally directs it.

Do you honestly believe that homosexuals would have such trouble simply living their lives the way they want to, if not for religion?

[MaximiIian]

Do you honestly believe that these people would have such trouble simply living their lives the way they want to, if not for religion?

Did you ever consider that people usually join a religion of their own volition in order to become part of a community of like-minded individuals?

[Tankbuster]

Did you ever consider that people usually join a religion of their own volition in order to become part of a community of like-minded individuals?

Is that why so many of them have to be baptised and brain-washed from when they're little?
Or do they somehow know what the kids are going to be thinking when they grow up?

[Ummon]

I think it might very well be possible to 'cure' certain homosexuals, but it's disgraceful to even suggest that people should try.

You mean that if a homosexual is unhappy with his own homosexuality, he shouldn't be able to receive help? That happens, as well as the opposite, you know.

[Tankbuster]

You mean that if a homosexual is unhappy with his own homosexuality, he shouldn't be able to receive help? That happens, as well as the opposite, you know.

No, what I meant was that certain individuals (Bill O'Reilly comes to mind) shouldn't suggest that homosexuals should try to change their behaviour and become heterosexuals, just because said individuals think homosexuality degrades humanity/is filthy/killed the dinosaurs.

If homosexuals think they would be happy as heterosexuals, by all means let them try to change their sexual urges.
It does indeed happen, and it can succeed. But it shouldn't be a standard response to homosexuals.

[MaximiIian]

@ Tankbuster: And you, of course, ignore the fact that they can still choose to be part of that community or not. Certain organised religions even have a ceremony where one can make that decision.

[Tigrul]

@Max and Roman

You two somehow ignore the fact that human children are incredibly impressionable and will believe mostly everything that figures of authority feed them. Of course that children which are taught christianity will be christians, it would be incredibly peculiar if they turned out differently, and only later, after their whole reality filters had already been installed, will they experience other ideas.

I for one consider myself incredibly lucky for managing to become an atheist. While I was going through the process, I was actually praying to god to help me keep my faith.

I mean... you guys ignore the fact that people who are raised in a certain religion have almost no chance at all of ever leaving that religion. Max, you give me the impression that you've chosen your religion, that's very good for you! But such cases of people who actually choose their religion without having had their minds washed from when they were too young to know any better are quite rare, quite the minority.

~~
LE: Seems that Roman didn't ignore that. Well... you don't interpret it quite right either. As an atheist, I won't tell my child not to believe in god, and I won't tell them to believe in god. Who says that any religious belief needs to be instilled? When they grow old enough, I'll present them my ideas, but not sooner.

[Roman Knight]

You two somehow ignore the fact that human children are incredibly impressionable and will believe mostly everything that figures of authority feed them. Of course that children which are taught christianity will be christians, it would be incredibly peculiar if they turned out differently, and only later, after their whole reality filters had already been installed, will they experience other ideas.

I for one consider myself incredibly lucky for managing to become an atheist. While I was going through the process, I was actually praying to god to help me keep my faith.

I mean... you guys ignore the fact that people who are raised in a certain religion have almost no chance at all of ever leaving that religion. Max, you give me the impression that you've chosen your religion, that's very good for you! But such cases of people who actually choose their religion without having had their minds washed from when they were too young to know any better are quite rare, quite the minority.

What's so wrong with people believing in a religion though? If it doesn't get forced on you in any way, it doesn't affect you. What you're doing is as bad as Christians trying to convert people and make sure their doctrines get taught in schools. Of course children are going to believe what they're told, and that includes atheism. You may think making kids atheist is a good thing, but firstly, you're completely forgetting that you might be wrong, something you always have to remember. Also, that's doing completely the same thing as indoctrinating people into religions. They'll just have to work it out for themselves when they're older, and you shouldn't be insisting that your beliefs be instilled over religious ones.

[spanish_emperor]

so what are you going to do, ban religion? you can't abolish such organizations, you can only control it.

[Tigrul]

You have misunderstood my intentions, and I have already explained:

I don't wish to make my kids atheist. I will let them choose, based on what they find out and what they ask. I am not asking that children are raised atheist, I am only suggesting that if children were raised without being told that a certain religious attitude is correct, then neither me nor Tank would have the argument we have now at our disposal.

As for what is wrong with people being religious, it depends on religion and on how religious. For me, reason is the most important of all values, so I obviously despise everything irrational. But you may have different values. However, one thing must be constant: we must all acknowledge that this very discussion is made possible by science. We must all acknowledge that the very existence of many of us owes heavily to science, specifically the one of medicine, for not allowing our ancestors to die of simple diseases. And this is why many religions are bad from an objective point of view: if the religion contradicts reality, then it contradicts the basis of science, it contradicts the foundations of that which we owe a great deal to. Not all religions have this fault, and it depends on sects and on what the believers believe from the said religion. But consider this: in the third century before current era, Aristarchos of Samos suggested that the Earth and other planets revolved around the Sun. Almost two millenia later, Galileo Galilei was tried for heresy for daring to suggest the same thing. Don't view this as an argument. Just view it as an interesting fact. (And there are quite a lot of other facts as well, quite a lot of things which the ancient Greeks and Romans knew and which humans had to rediscover, reinvent in the past few centuries)

[MaximiIian]

I personally don't have any experience with religious indoctrination. I was never raised religious or around specific religions. I came to my religious beliefs and affiliation entirely of my own accord, of my own free will.
So, all the talk of indoctrinating and brainwashing kids comes across to me as strange and bizarre. I simply cannot connect with the idea, as I have never been around it.

[The Noble Lord]

Why should religions have no place in the society, because some gay activists are feeling threatened.
It's doesn't make any sense at all, religion should not be blamed for the current views of the majority population of any society really. Look at what has happened in Nazi Germany where homosexuals were persecuted and religion had nothing to do with it. And there are so many other examples as well.