Useful units?

[Genius of the Restoration]

Hi all, just wondering what everyone thinks of some units that I've never really used well. Real question is are they viable, in campaign or multiplayer. I play more campaign than mp, so I'm interested to hear how you guys see them. Some that I've thought of:

Gladiators - except maybe in a pre-marius mp, how useful are they?

Scythian Noble Women - Why the reduced unit strength? Why not use the denarii on upgrading normal HA?

Bedouin Warriors - A light cav that moves slowly but is a camel unit. The only use I can think of is to attack other cav, but the only ones thet'd be able to defeat are other light cav that can easily outrun them anyway.

Nubian cav - Why not take Desert cav instead?

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Now with greater stats! Also have the large 5def shields, which is bigger than the one used by their upgrade the Bronze Shields. But they also have smaller unit size than other pike units. Does anyone use these?

Cataphract camels - too slow and less effective on the charge? Really strong vs cav though.

A penny for your thoughts...

[HanatielHawk]

I never use gladiators only in pre-marius yes. but further they're in a low ammount of numbers and that's not worth spending because the legionaries are way more in numbers.

Scythian noble women? pass.. i don't know.

Bedouin warriors are usefull when playing a campaign. camels and still some attack and defence makes them usefull to hire and use in combat of an campaign. although i'd rather just use normal camelriders.
still handy when playing versus parthia.

nubian cav? pass.. i don't know.

pontic phalanx pikes. well, they can do a phalanx?? don't they.

cataphract camels. although slow still very effective when fighting of cavalery. use them to protect your flanks of cavalery attacks, they will be very usefull and gives you an enormous advantage.

[Dafuge]

Gladiators - except maybe in a pre-marius mp, how useful are they?

I find no usefullness in Gladiators, unless you want to use them for better fodder instead of peasants.

Scythian Noble Women - Why the reduced unit strength? Why not use the denarii on upgrading normal HA?

There massive range is good, it's around the same as a Creten or Archer Auxiliaries, which is better than the normal horse archer range.

Bedouin Warriors - A light cav that moves slowly but is a camel unit. The only use I can think of is to attack other cav, but the only ones thet'd be able to defeat are other light cav that can easily outrun them anyway.

They are good light cav, and if you hit them into the back of a cav battle then it's almost certain to cause mass rout.

Nubian cav - Why not take Desert cav instead?

I see no point in them at all, especially with chariots and desert cav, although if your low on funds or a weird ruleset they might be useful.

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Now with greater stats! Also have the large 5def shields, which is bigger than the one used by their upgrade the Bronze Shields. But they also have smaller unit size than other pike units. Does anyone use these?

There is a discussion about this in my thread about Pontus and Cappadocian cav here.

Cataphract camels - too slow and less effective on the charge? Really strong vs cav though.

These are an awesome unit, they can defeat normal catas in a normal fight, all though it's good to bring a mix so you can hold the line with these and flank with normal catas.

[Genius of the Restoration]

There massive range is good, it's around the same as a Creten or Archer Auxiliaries, which is better than the normal horse archer range.

The Noble archers also have the long range. They cost 230 Dn more but are increased melee attack and defence by 3 and also come with the full amount of cavalry units unlike the women. They also trade in the fast moving for good morale. The women seem to be somewhere in the middle of basic and elite HA, which seems to leave them without a real purpose.

These are an awesome unit, they can defeat normal catas in a normal fight, all though it's good to bring a mix so you can hold the line with these and flank with normal catas.

Mmm. Maybe for fighting other eastern factions with cataphracts then. Is it overkill otherwise, considering catas easily take out other cav anyway?

[Dafuge]

No, because they cost the same amount of money, so there's no real point of not recruiting them, it's basically normal Cataphracts have better speed and denser formation or Cataphract Camels who have can rout basically all other cavalry except for maybe chariots.

For horse archers, the noble women are good on multiplayer because Scythia are only really good on low money settings, but in a campaign, go with the most elite. I always choose them just because I like to have Head Hunters and Noble Women being the bosses of my army.

[Zekey]

gladiators - except maybe in a pre-marius mp, how useful are they?

They are just another unit of medium strength inf like arcani or early legionary cohort, I think they have high attack so they are pretty decent at flanking.

Scythian Noble Women - Why the reduced unit strength? Why not use the denarii on upgrading normal HA?

They have longer range than normal horse archers.

Bedouin Warriors - A light cav that moves slowly but is a camel unit. The only use I can think of is to attack other cav, but the only ones thet'd be able to defeat are other light cav that can easily outrun them anyway.

They can be used against heavy cav as a support unit for your heavy cav just to scare the enemy cav to make that battle easier on your heavy cav.

Nubian cav - Why not take Desert cav instead?

Nubian cav are better for archer raids because their spears are better at killing archers than axes. Also I think they have better charge, nubian have 5 and desert cav 4, or desert cav might have 6 not sure.

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Now with greater stats! Also have the large 5def shields, which is bigger than the one used by their upgrade the Bronze Shields. But they also have smaller unit size than other pike units. Does anyone use these?

If you are playing max 6 same and you still have money after you got 6 bronze pikes then you can get phalanx pikes same on BiA rules with max 4 same.

Cataphract camels - too slow and less effective on the charge? Really strong vs cav though.

Best cav in hand to hand in the game their use is obvious.

[War lord]

Gladiators - except maybe in a pre-marius mp, how useful are they?

Don't use them if your opponant says pre-marius that's not what he wants.

Scythian Noble Women - Why the reduced unit strength? Why not use the denarii on upgrading normal HA?

Far better range.

Bedouin Warriors - A light cav that moves slowly but is a camel unit. The only use I can think of is to attack other cav, but the only ones thet'd be able to defeat are other light cav that can easily outrun them anyway.

Suck

Nubian cav - Why not take Desert cav instead?

Nubian cav are armed with lances and have a bigger charge bonus the Desert cav have AP axes and a lower charge bonus.
Use Desert cav on other cav and Nubians for H&A.

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Now with greater stats! Also have the large 5def shields, which is bigger than the one used by their upgrade the Bronze Shields. But they also have smaller unit size than other pike units. Does anyone use these?

Cataphract camels - too slow and less effective on the charge? Really strong vs cav though.
As has been said take a mix.

[Genius of the Restoration]

Okay, I know that the Noble Women have greater range, but I want to know if anyone uses them. I did some math and it turns out that the Noble archers are actually cheaper per unit than the noble women. That's pretty messed up.

@War lord:
The armour-piercing axes of the Desert cav easily make up any of the stat differences in my opinion. Given a charge, these guys have a decent chance of taking down cataphracts.


A couple more that I'm not sure about:
Cataphract archers - So expensive and lacking the mace. Are these tanks worth the price?

Ballista variants - I've never had more than a couple of kills from these units

[MaceMan]

A couple more that I'm not sure about:
Cataphract archers - So expensive and lacking the mace. Are these tanks worth the price?

Hell no, especially on low money. Not only are they way too expensive, but they can be caught unlike other horse archers, and despite their appearance, they won't put up much of a fight.

Ballista variants - I've never had more than a couple of kills from these units

If you're going to take artillery, you might as well take the longer ranged and ever more useful onagers.

[War lord]

Okay, I know that the Noble Women have greater range, but I want to know if anyone uses them. I did some math and it turns out that the Noble archers are actually cheaper per unit than the noble women. That's pretty messed up.

@War lord:
The armour-piercing axes of the Desert cav easily make up any of the stat differences in my opinion. Given a charge, these guys have a decent chance of taking down cataphracts.


A couple more that I'm not sure about:
1.Cataphract archers - So expensive and lacking the mace. Are these tanks worth the price?

Ballista variants - I've never had more than a couple of kills from these units

1.Overpriced and useless.

2.Don't bother with Ballistas they limit you rather then help.

[Dafuge]

But never the Heavy Onagers, as they have a lower reload time, which doesn't compensate for their higher attack, unless of course, during a siege.

[Flavius Alberticus]

Ballistas have only rarely ever been useful for me...

[HanatielHawk]

Onagers do way more damage, as in area-damage. I only spend my money on ballista's for a quick and cheap settlement take-over to stop the enemy from trying invasions on my empire. Most of the time i just do a quick conquest over an enemy city when the inland of my empire is threatend and my economy can be demolished easily. Ballista's on the battlemap however makes it harder for me too win. On the campaign map the computer just calculates it like: The army has a ballista in the army which means the wall is not effective to stop the enemy from passing through the gates. While on the battlemap your ammunition just runs out before they can even do much damage.
This only with stone walls or higher. Wooden walls and stockades can hardly stop ballista's.

[|Sith| Max]

Hi all, just wondering what everyone thinks of some units that I've never really used well. Real question is are they viable, in campaign or multiplayer. I play more campaign than mp, so I'm interested to hear how you guys see them. Some that I've thought of:

Gladiators - except maybe in a pre-marius mp, how useful are they?

Scythian Noble Women - Why the reduced unit strength? Why not use the denarii on upgrading normal HA?

Bedouin Warriors - A light cav that moves slowly but is a camel unit. The only use I can think of is to attack other cav, but the only ones thet'd be able to defeat are other light cav that can easily outrun them anyway.

Nubian cav - Why not take Desert cav instead?

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Now with greater stats! Also have the large 5def shields, which is bigger than the one used by their upgrade the Bronze Shields. But they also have smaller unit size than other pike units. Does anyone use these?

Cataphract camels - too slow and less effective on the charge? Really strong vs cav though.

A penny for your thoughts...

ill be evaluating their usefullness for MP not for SP:
Gladiators, To me, none, but my lesser clanmembers use the brutii spear gladiators to replace Triarii, even though the Triarii have higher defense stats and a lot more men.

Scythian Noble Women HA, For me they, despite having a small number of men, offer cheap long ranged HA units with good stats. the alternative, the Scythian Noble HA, costs a lot more, and dont have the fast moving trait.

Bedouin Camel Cav, For me they have absolutely no use. if i want melee camels ill go with Camelphracts.

Nubian cavalry, Since i swore an oath not to use the whorefaction that is egypt i wouldnt know.

Pontic Phalanx Pikemen, For me, they are the infantry i take if i have cavalry based army. when u rely on cavalry and archers youre looking for cheaper units with decent stats. The PPP offer cheap, strong defense to protect the archers while the Cavalrymen do their work.

Camelphracts, Cavalry to cavalry superiority. i usually dont use them due to the speed issue, but they do serve in my famous Parthian Rush army simply because i can only have 6 of 1 unit type.

Edit: Now give me my penny.

[Seleucid king]

Gladiators - For me, they are just there to look cool.

Scythian Noble Women - I've never even SEEN these in the unit roster.

Bedouin Warriors - Pass.

Nubian cav - Pass.

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Good for being a cheap but effective Phalanx unit.

Cataphract camels - I see them as Cataphracts that scare horses. As for the slow-moving thing? They are actually fast moving, but use them in Flank ambushes if you have to.

[Genius of the Restoration]

Cataphract camels - I see them as Cataphracts that scare horses. As for the slow-moving thing? They are actually fast moving, but use them in Flank ambushes if you have to.

What do you mean? They aren't fast moving at all. Maybe about as fast as an infantry unit, which isn't really great for a cav unit

[|Sith| Max]

Gladiators - For me, they are just there to look cool.

Scythian Noble Women - I've never even SEEN these in the unit roster.

Bedouin Warriors - Pass.

Nubian cav - Pass.

Pontic phalanx pikemen - Good for being a cheap but effective Phalanx unit.

Cataphract camels - I see them as Cataphracts that scare horses. As for the slow-moving thing? They are actually fast moving, but use them in Flank ambushes if you have to.

please limit your commentary to the Selkies? you are rapidly becoming a reason to finish my makeshift fireworks launching panzerfaust. please, just stick to the selkies...

[Toern]

I agree with max in all except
-Bedouin Warriors may be useful playing with armenia versus an specific faction