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Thread: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

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  1. #1

    Default What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    In most of the debates here Mohamed is more or less described as false prophet by both Jews and Christians (not performing miracles, all other prophets lived in celibacy and with no lust for material things, but life he lived - harem, even with 6 years old, plundering caravans, murdering, raping, taking and enjoying money from plunders etc)

    But what is Jewish stance towards Jesus? He is not Messiah? If not why. Is he recognized as a prophet if not as Messiah? Or just as vise man? Or a total fake?

    I am not familiar with an issue so I please some experts of the field. Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    He didn't fulfill all the prophecies concerning the Jewish messiah, they generally think of him as being an eccentric nut.
    The wheel is spinning, but the hamster is dead.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Thanks Helm. But what/where is the list of all Jewish prophecies an Messiah should fulfill ? I do not recall similar list in Old Testament?

  4. #4

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17)
    2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendent of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)
    3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)
    4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)
    5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)
    6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)
    The wheel is spinning, but the hamster is dead.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Great list Rep +

    So, he is just shisophrenic nuts to the Jews now. Thanks

    But, I have one more question than. If that list was known to every Jew, and since he did not fulfill most of requirements, while significant portion of Jews DID recognized him as Messiah?
    Last edited by 4th Regiment; July 11, 2009 at 05:15 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Regiment View Post
    Great list Rep +

    So, he is just shisophrenic nuts to the Jews now. Thanks

    But, I have one more question than. If that list was known to every Jew, and since he did not fulfill most of requirements, while significant portion of Jews DID recognized him as Messiah?
    Only a tiny handful of Jews became Christians and they would have been considered to be an eccentric cult at the time. It was really the Pagans of the Roman Empire who converted to Christianity in large numbers and that turned Christianity into a major world religion.
    The wheel is spinning, but the hamster is dead.

  7. #7
    Hippolord's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helm View Post
    1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17)
    2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendent of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)
    3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)
    4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)
    5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)
    6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)
    Odd that sounds more like Anti-Christ in Christian Tradition, esspecially 4,5,and 6.

    Coincidence? Maybe...

    But anyway: I always thought that they viewed him as one of the Great prophets, and as the last prophet, before the Messiah, just they did not think him to be the Messiah.

    I wanna lie, lie to myself, myself and someone else. Cause it’s the lying that hurts, and it’s the hurt that lets me know I’m alive.”

  8. #8

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hippolord View Post
    Odd that sounds more like Anti-Christ in Christian Tradition, esspecially 4,5,and 6.

    Coincidence? Maybe...

    But anyway: I always thought that they viewed him as one of the Great prophets, and as the last prophet, before the Messiah, just they did not think him to be the Messiah.
    So far as the Jews' views of Jesus, I think that roy's views sum it up nicely.
    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    He is viewed as a false messiah.
    Same thing as all these
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_messianic_claimants
    These are the ones we know of. I think that in many and all bazaars and what have you, there would always be some learned person, one capable with words who would proclaim himself as the Messiah. Think about it for a second. With so many people proclaiming themselves as the Messiah wouldn't it be advisable at the very least for the Rabbis of Israel to be VERY CAREFUL as to who they would proclaim as one? I honestly think that for a man to claim "Messianic" status something has got to be awfully wrong. Besides, think of the last time someone claimed out loud he was The Messiah. 580.000 Jews slain and Israel destroyed, only to be righteously restored in 1948 after another person who claimed to be "The Messiah" killed nearly 6.000.000 Jewish people. A false Messiah beyond belief if there ever was one.

    http://nobeliefs.com/hitlerchristian.htm
    Spoiler for from the site above

    After reading Hitler's book and his speeches, one cannot help but realize that Hitler believed in fate and the guiding hand of Providence. Like many powerful religious people, he thought of himself as a sort of messiah, chosen by God. In 1943, while the war still raged on, the U.S. Office of Strategic Services (forerunner of the CIA) commissioned the psychoanalyst, Walter Langer, to develop a "psychological profile" of Adolf Hitler. Langer looked at all the, then, available material about Hitler, including Mein Kampf, his speeches, and interviews with former Hitler associates. Langer concluded:
    A survey of all the evidence forces us to conclude that Hitler believes himself destined to become an Immortal Hitler, chosen by God to be the New Deliverer of Germany and the Founder of a new social order for the world. He firmly believes this and is certain that in spite of all the trials and tribulations through which he must pass he will finally attain that goal. The one condition is that he follow the dictates of the inner voice that have guided and protected him in the past.
    Langer hypothesized the most likely scenario if Hitler faced defeat where, in a "prescient moment," Hitler's belief in divine protection would compel him to fight to the bitter end, "drag[ging] a world with us -- a world in flames," and ultimately, he would take his own life. [Ryback]


    I am a Christian, therefore I believe in Jesus Christ and all he has left to us in the Bible. That includes the coming of the AntiChrist.

    A very interesting topic, this. I am not really an expert on the matter, nor do I claim to be, therefore please enlighten me if you can seeing that you are an expert in Christian tradition, there are some things I would like to ask:

    4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)


    How is this Anti-Christian? How does this affect Christianity in any way? I am really curious on your answer. I don't know how this could happen without removal of a Holy site, the Dome of the Rock built where the Temple used to be, nor would I ever promote in any way the destruction of the Dome of the Rock Mosque, but for the sake of argument, how is this Anti-Christian?

    5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)


    How is this evil? I am not saying that it is easy or achievable in our livetimes but how is this evil?

    6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)

    One could argue that the Abrahamic religions (Judaism,Christianity,Islam) are the descendants of Israel and the unyielding faith Israelites have shown to One God. That means the majority of the world's population today. That isn't the entire world, granted, but it is the majority of it.

    I hope you don't mind me asking those questions. I am just another man of the street, in front of a PC looking for answers like many people here.
    Anti- before something can mean many things, granted, but Antichrist means ONLY "Against"Christ.
    Here's who I consider the most likely candidate...
    http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/dove.jpg

    The caption in there reads...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I am not certain of the date of this astonishing poster, although I am quite sure it is from the 1930's. This poster makes the most direct Christological comparison I've seen. Just as a dove descended on Christ when he was baptised by John the Baptist, so what looks to be an eagle hovers against the light of heaven over an idealized Hitler. The text: "Long live Germany!." Courtesy of Dr. Robert D. Brooks.


    Let's just say there isn't one thing in that poster that isn't perverse beyond belief. From the "A" in each sides signifying Angels watching over Hitler to the Standard Bearin Hitler to his Nazi minions doing the same as he. A wolf in sheep's skin if there ever was one.

    Some interesting views on who I consider the Anti-christ mentioned above. I don't agree with many of the points I will link you to, but read them if you like and formulate your own opinion.
    http://nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
    Go Minerwars Go! A 6DOF game of space mining and shooting. SAKA Co-FC, Koinon Hellenon FC, Epeiros FC. RS Hellenistic Historian K.I.S.S.




  9. #9
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Jewish stance on Jesus?
    Target eliminated.

  10. #10

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    "He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)
    6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)"

    These would be the ones he fulfills later.

  11. #11
    Fiyenyaa's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Playfishpaste View Post
    "He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)
    6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)"

    These would be the ones he fulfills later.
    So he's not the messiah yet.

  12. #12
    Roman Knight's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiyenyaa View Post
    So he's not the messiah yet.
    I somehow doubt that Christianity is going to make that kind of drastic comeback at any point in the future, but who knows.

    Anyway, he could be said to have accomplished all those things, especially if you consider the Roman Empire the controller of the known world.

  13. #13

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiyenyaa View Post
    So he's not the messiah yet.
    to the jews, no, to the christians it's inevitable that he'll do those, so he is.

  14. #14

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    He was a thought of as a mere human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet
    Jewish stance on Jesus?
    Target eliminated.
    Last edited by ShADoW; July 11, 2009 at 06:16 PM.


  15. #15

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy!
    The wheel is spinning, but the hamster is dead.

  16. #16
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    AFAIK he was considered a bastard whose mother was a whore.



    dd that sounds more like Anti-Christ in Christian Tradition, esspecially 4,5,and 6.

    Coincidence? Maybe...
    Well, hes called the anti-(anti means "in place of" as well as "opposed to") Christ for a reason...


  17. #17
    Georgy Zhukov's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    No, IIRC he's seen as a rabbi but not a prophet. Could be wrong though

  18. #18
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    There isn't an official Jewish stance because there isn't an official Jewish organization.

  19. #19

    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?



    -> not official but funny

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What is official religious Jewish stance towards Jesus?

    This may be off-topic but....

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Regiment View Post
    In most of the debates here Mohamed is more or less described as false prophet by both Jews and Christians (not performing miracles, all other prophets lived in celibacy and with no lust for material things, but life he lived - harem, even with 6 years old, plundering caravans, murdering, raping, taking and enjoying money from plunders etc)
    ...wtf is this ? Fist of all, your list of reasons excluding Mohammad from prophethood is retarded and false. Second, this list excludes every being to ever exist from being a prophet. For instance, pretty much everyone who could be considered a prophet (David, Solomon, Abraham,folks like that) were pretty obviously not virgins. Maybe Jesus was one. I don't know, as most of my knowledge of Jesus comes from seeing Jesus Christ Superstar 8 years ago.

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