Tactics for Javelin vs Archers/Crossbow

[mavyalex]

Hello,

I play the excellent Eastern Roman Empire factions and they have great spearmen and javelin throwers.
However I wonder how I can compete with factions that use a lot of archers and crossbowmen using my javelin throwers mainly?

My foot soldier javelins have to get nearer to shoot and usually could get destroyed by archers way before they have a chance to hit. I haven't tried against Crossowmen yet.

I notived horse javelin throwers are better because more mobile and can shoot and go away quickly before being pierced with dozens of arrows, but they are not in great number in each squad.

So please give me your experience with this.

[Surgeon]

Eastern Roman Empire? I think you're playing mod, Broken Crescent perhaps? You're probably better off asking this in the mod's forum.

I personally don't have a strategy for dealing with archers/crossbows using javelins only. You'll probably have to rely more on cavalry.

[Juli]

My advice: Do not make javelin troops, they totally suck IMHO (particularly foot javelins).

I´m not trolling or anything, its just the truth. The javelinmen´s animation is very slow (CA is to blame here), so they simply cannot fire before they have to retreat (even heavy infantry easily catches up with them). And, as you have noticed, archers/crossbowmen own them.

So, to sum up, train archers if possible

[Viking Prince]

I find the infantry based spear chuckers are OK as wall seige defenders rather than basic archer units. In the open field, the lack of mobility for infantry is always a problem. Foot based units take big casaulties to close in against archers.

btw -- cavalry is best for closing distance against archers -- why would you even want to use a short range infantry based missile unit?

[zzzms]

I find they can be useful defensively, they break up attacking units quite nicely, and they are often very good at dealing with elephants, but, beyond that I rarely use them, either in vanilla M2 or Broken Crescent, altho' I have yet to play the ERE in BC, amongst others!

[RollingWave]

foot based javs are pretty useless except in some defensive cases. it's not that javlins don't hit a ton, they do, the problem is that your never going to get into the position you need to effectively use that power while on foot.

Horse javlin though, are pretty damn awesome, my Moorish army early field tactics depends extremely heavily on desert cavalry and their devastating javlin attacks (it's often tricky to pull off though)

[FriendoftheDork]

I would use cavalry to counter the archers, javeliners simply cannot do this.

javelins can be pretty awesome though, I remember they were even worse in MTW but used correctly they can be awesome.

1. Javelins can be thrown over the heads of allies without causing too much FF.

2. javelins kill even heavily armored troops.

3. Javelins can be force thrown at engaged enemy units, but they won't do it on fire at will.

4. Never let cavalry charge into your javeliners.

[Goofy]

...5. Keep your javelinmen behind the infantry.
6. Command them to attack when the enemy (usually infantry) is charging --> their formation breaks and the charge is not as powerful as in other cases.
7. Javelinmen are good at defending castles - at close range maybe better than archers.

[RollingWave]

one trick I have with javlins (foot or mount both works) during seige defense is this, keep them under the wall, when the enemy comes with strong units through seige tower or ladders and have a chance of pushing your man off the wall (when they already have plenty of guys on the wall and hold a small section), they should be standing in a stationary file as a big block... making them PERFECT targets for javlins from BELOW the wall

Also, if you get a chance. always shoot javlins at generals.

[Goofy]

one trick I have with javlins (foot or mount both works) during seige defense is this, keep them under the wall, when the enemy comes with strong units through seige tower or ladders and have a chance of pushing your man off the wall (when they already have plenty of guys on the wall and hold a small section), they should be standing in a stationary file as a big block... making them PERFECT targets for javlins from BELOW the wall

Also, if you get a chance. always shoot javlins at generals.

Good idea. I must test it. +rep

[Nazgûl Killer]

one trick I have with javlins (foot or mount both works) during seige defense is this, keep them under the wall, when the enemy comes with strong units through seige tower or ladders and have a chance of pushing your man off the wall (when they already have plenty of guys on the wall and hold a small section), they should be standing in a stationary file as a big block... making them PERFECT targets for javlins from BELOW the wall

Aye, I always do that.
They make perfect targets for crossbows as well, but bows tend to aim far too upwards.

[Aristarchus]

I disagree about the uselessness of javelins. I play Lands to Conquer mod and in some factions like the Turks, the javelins are essential to counter well armoured enemies, not just for defense but all over. In field battles if the enemy has a lot of archers/crossbows the infantry has to attack quickly. I march everyone forward, javelins behind the spears and assault troops on the flanks, and just before coming in enemy archer range rush forward - first with cavalry, some directly at the archers out front, and others behind the enemy lines - meaning enemy cavalry has to be taken into account earlier. The front cavalry retreats away from the enemy spears as the infantry and javelins charge forward to meet them. The back cavalry harries the enemy archers more. This cavalry rush takes the heat off the infantry charge and puts the javelins close enough to support the melee, which is very important to breaking through.