Are you converting to Christianity in your campaigns?

[Xerrop]

To bring some life into this nearly dead forum, I´ll start a new topic:
How do you deal with the Portuguese and the Christendom?

Do you convert to this new religion and start building churches?
Or do you remain Buddhist in your campaigns?

[caravel]

I tend to convert and start training Teppo Ashigaru as soon as possible. Converting has many advantages, including, but not limited to, the large cathedral income that is drawn from all churches and increased trade income from the trading posts and of course the guns themselves which are very effective if correctly deployed. The only real disadvantage is the inability to train budhist warrior monks.

If you do convert, remember to train lots of Christian Emissaries (Catholic Priests) instead of standard Emissaries. The standard emissaries are actually budhists and will slowly convert your provinces back to budhism. Send the emissaries out to convert target provinces before you invade.

[Martok]

For me, it varies. I tend to roleplay my clan to an extent, so it depends on which one I'm playing.

If I'm playing the more "traditional" Takeda or the Mori, I usually don't convert. If I'm playing the more "progressive" Shimazu or Oda, I generally do convert.

With the other three clans (Hojo, Imagawa, & Uesugi), whether or not I convert is often dependent on need and/or expediency. I tend to be a bit more....Machievellian when playing those clans.

[Xerrop]

If you do convert, remember to train lots of Christian Emissaries (Catholic Priests) instead of standard Emissaries. The standard emissaries are actually budhists and will slowly convert your provinces back to budhism. Send the emissaries out to convert target provinces before you invade.

Thanks, a good info

Haven´t thought about this ...

[Axalon]

Hi guys,

Oh Caravel, you’re such a hopeless progressive opportunist in these regards, but he is probably right about all the details Xerrop (you see, he loves “Teppos”, that's probably why he knows all about the Christian stuff).

I on the other hand am a stubborn traditionalist that never bothered much with Christianity (I loathe gunpowder, you see). I put my faith in my highly skilled archers and Yari (and heavy) cavalry formations instead (and No-dachi of course). Usually, it works pretty well too…

I get the feeling that Martok is somewhere between me and Caravel…

- Cheers

[caravel]

Hi guys,

Oh Caravel, you’re such a hopeless progressive opportunist in these regards, but he is probably right about all the details Xerrop (you see, he loves “Teppos”, that's probably why he knows all about the Christian stuff).

Teppos require some skill to deploy and use. You may need more experience playing the game before you get the hang of them. For now stick to your familiar "hack and slash" tactics. Remember well the fate of the Takeda Cavarly when facing Lord Oda... remember it well.

[Yojimbo]

Often convert, I love using gun units. Warrior monks are badass as well tho.

[Xerrop]

For me, it varies. I tend to roleplay my clan to an extent, so it depends on which one I'm playing ... If I'm playing the more "progressive" Shimazu or Oda, I generally do convert.

Well, then it was a good (and historical accurate) choice to convert in my first campaign with the Shimazu.

But I´m the only clan switching to christianity - all others remain Buddhist, even some decades after the portuguese arrival.
How does the AI usually act in your campaigns?

[Martok]

I've seen the Shimazu convert on occasion, although it doesn't happen often. Not sure if I remember seeing other clans go Christian or not. I know for sure that the Mori *never* do (at least not in any of my campaigns).

[Edward lV]

I usualy wait for the dutch in my games. Much easier.

[caravel]

The conversion to catholicism and builing of churches and cathedrals actually has big advantages, both in terms of Teppo units and extra cathedral and trading post income. The only real disadvantage is that you lose the ability to train Monks.

[Edward lV]

And alot of unrest at first. I cant be bothered dealing with it. Dutch is better aswell because you get musketeers straight away if i recall.

[caravel]

The unrest is more your rival clans' problem than your problem. Catholic priests convert provinces very quickly so that they're ready for occupation before you invade. The AI on the other hand struggles to take and hold your lands due to religious differences.

By the time the Dutch arrive, if you'd accepted the Portuguese and started building churches and a cathedral you'd have Musketeers already. The Portuguese are really the best option unless you want to remain Buddhist and train Monks.

[Xerrop]

Catholic priests convert provinces very quickly so that they're ready for occupation before you invade.

Unfortunatly it seems, that the AI´s first priority is to kill all my priests as soon as possible, so I don´t have time to convert enemy provinces.

Another question: Priests can also be used as emissaries. But since I´m the only clan that switches to Christianity it isn´t very useful. All my priests return beheaded. Does it make any sense to use priests as emissaries?

[caravel]

Unfortunatly it seems, that the AI´s first priority is to kill all my priests as soon as possible, so I don´t have time to convert enemy provinces.

Another question: Priests can also be used as emissaries. But since I´m the only clan that switches to Christianity it isn´t very useful. All my priests return beheaded. Does it make any sense to use priests as emissaries?

Priests = Christian Emissaries
Emissaries = Buddhist Emissaries

"Emissaries" convert the religion of a province to their religion. Both can also perform bribes and diplomacy and both are sitting ducks for ninja. They are identical in function. The only difference is their religion. To convert provinces you realistically need about 10 emissaries and you should move them from a well protected base (several high honour shinobi should see to this) into the target province. Leave them there converting the province for a few seasons until the first one is killed. At this point move the whole lot back into their base province to draw the enemy ninja into a trap. Once an enemy ninja is caught move them all back in. Once the Christian percentage is under/over 50% - invade. Rinse and repeat.

Emissaries returning beheaded does have a little to do with their religion. If you're that unpopular you will find this will often happen with your Buddhist Emissaries when visiting Buddhist Daimyos also. Being of the same religion just means that it's less likely to happen - but the attempted diplomacy will probably still have same resultm, i.e. ceasefire/audience refused.

[Xerrop]

To convert provinces you realistically need about 10 emissaries and you should move them from a well protected base (several high honour shinobi should see to this) into the target province. Leave them there converting the province for a few seasons until the first one is killed. At this point move the whole lot back into their base province to draw the enemy ninja into a trap. Once an enemy ninja is caught move them all back in.

Wow, you are using so many priests for a single province?
Must be a hard task to send dozens of priests around on the map

But I get your trick - should try it when I´m playing my next campaign

[caravel]

Wow, you are using so many priests for a single province?
Must be a hard task to send dozens of priests around on the map

Not at all. Move your high honour Shinobi around as well. Keep them one province behind the priests so that they don't have far to go to safety. Also moving the Shinobi along like this means that they'll always be in the recently conquered provinces helping to maintain loyalty.

[Axalon]

Xerrop, do what ever is most fun for you...

Personally it seems like a lot of fuss to get some access to some measly teppos. Tactically speaking these are not that bad but they are hardly decisive or crucial either for the game. A single unit of warrior-monks will pretty easily slaughter at least 3 units of muskets (550 kokus vs. 750 kokus, 1 unit vs. 3 units, and quality vs. quantity). You do the math Xerrop, it is not really necessary to bother with Christianity unless you think it is particularly fun to do so. That’s just my simple opinion - among others voiced here.

- Cheers

[caravel]

Xerrop, do what ever is most fun for you...

I'm sure Xerrop will do this anyway without needing to be prompted. You should also bear in mind that he started a thread on the subject

Personally it seems like a lot of fuss to get some access to some measly teppos. Tactically speaking these are not that bad but they are hardly decisive or crucial either for the game. A single unit of warrior-monks will pretty easily slaughter at least 3 units of muskets (550 kokus vs. 750 kokus, 1 unit vs. 3 units, and quality vs. quantity). You do the math Xerrop, it is not really necessary to bother with Christianity unless you think it is particularly fun to do so. That’s just my simple opinion - among others voiced here.

- Cheers

Your opinion, which you are entitled to, of course. Though when I make my opinion I try not to belittle or berate a certain type of unit/tactic due to my own personal preferences/abilities (or lack of). Yes I'm sure Xerrop knows, as do most players, that in the end a high honour and super upgraded Monk bumrush will usually be a battle winning tactic - but often players wish to try differing tactics that actually increase the challenge?

I think that in your case the issue here is that you've never deployed Teppo to good effect and thus have never seen the advantages. You also miss the main point of converting to Christianity in STW: It makes sense due to the huge potential cathedral/trade income - and just as a means to acquire a specific unit. It also gives more variation between campaigns; i.e. you can play a Christian campaign an opportunist campaign or a fanatical Buddhist campaign among others. It took me a long time to see the merits of christianity and Teppo units, but now that I do it doesn't mean that I play every campaign as a Christian Daimyo. I often role play campaigns so I may play a Monk based campaign as the Mori, a Teppo campaign as Oda or a cavalry based campaign as Takeda.

[Martok]

Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss teppos so easily. While I don't think I've used them to as good effect as Caravel (which only makes sense since I'm quite certain he's a better player than I am), I have found them to be very useful overall. And although I myself don't convert to Christianity that much (as I don't play Shimazu or Oda very often), the cathedral/trade income from doing so is definitely nothing to be sneered at.