What do you think/believe about 9/11

[Platon]

Since the latest discussion about 9/11, I wonder what people believe happened. Noone can be convinced with arguments or different theories so I guess it's about belief really.
I come up with 5 options

1. The official story is closest to the truth.
I believe that the official investigation explains very well what happened. Even if it's not 100% waterproof, it's understandable considering the extreme circumstances! It is as simple as that!!

2. The official story is flawed
There have been many mistakes and the whole investigation have been handled with too much incompetence. But the Gov have generally made the correct analysis. Terrorists seek to destroy our country and our way of life.

3. Don't know and don't care
This is already ancient history and not very significant. There are more pressing matters to worry about, like climate change or the economy.

4. Something is not right
The official story have lots of holes. Don't know if the investigation was incompetent or because it suits some men in power. It may very well still be (islamic?) terrorists thats behind this, but the US Gov are surely using it to promote their agenda. The US (and other) intelligent services may have some hands dirty also.

5. It's a conspiracy
There are a few very powerful men who dictates the world. They control the economy, global resources and massmedia - all in a complicated chain where they are dependent on eachother and the will use their power to keep status quo. The only way to retain this power is to make sure that the masses live in fear. And if things are starting to go bad, divert the poor masses hatred against eachother. It has been done before and it will happen again.

[Markas]

If there's no poll, I'll assume there's a question somewhere in this. I will say 1.5.

[ShADoW]

#2 or #4

[LSJ]

For my beliefs, I can't say anything certain. I don't believe in the major conspiracy theories. They are horridly flawed, being unrealistic, using way too many assumptions and unreliable sources. But I have some issues with the official story. Its one of those problems that is such a pain to do anything with. The evidence is provided by a suspect, so its always so circular and useless.

All in all, I don't much care. It isn't my country, no one I know was affected, and whatever success some conspiracy theory has had, has been limited. So what if some rich people got richer, or some powerful men got more power? Thousands die every month for the benefit of small groups of men with those goals. Its always been that way.

Maybe I'll be more involved when it happens close to home, or when there is a serious threat.

[Visna]

I'll say 1.25.
The conspiracy theories that have been put forth are even more full of holes than the "official" version.

Using this event to further some other goals is not an unlikely scenario, though.

[Downey]

should we just copy/paste the other thread on here?

[Heathen Hammer]

The flaws of conspiracy theories do not make official version credible.
So I voted number 4.

[Chukada1]

Uhhh...


Saudi's take over plane.
Plane crashes into towers.
Innocent People Died.

What else is there to believe?

[Markas]

Uhhh...


Saudi's take over plane.
Plane crashes into towers.
Innocent People Died.

What else is there to believe?

Far too mundane. It has to be sexed up, preferably with youtube videos by college drop-outs.

Perhaps we could be constructive it this thread and have 'truthers' ask questions and those who aren't respond to them? It might save on those huge posts like a certain member used to put forward.

[Barry Goldwater]

1.5, compared to the official story the conspiracy theories are - to use a quote from Blackadder - 'as excrement compared to cream'.

[Heathen Hammer]

Uhhh...


Saudi's take over plane.
Plane crashes into towers.
Innocent People Died.

What else is there to believe?

Saudis is the key word. I don't recall US invading or even making any pressure on Saudi Arabia, although this country has been funding various terrorist movements all over the world.
I don't believe the official version and I don't believe most of conspiracies either. I guess someone from American political elites just gained a lot on scaring population and expansion of military budget.

[GuineaPig]

Saudis is the key word. I don't recall US invading or even making any pressure on Saudi Arabia, although this country has been funding various terrorist movements all over the world.
I don't believe the official version and I don't believe most of conspiracies either. I guess someone from American political elites just gained a lot on scaring population and expansion of military budget.

lolwut


The U.S. has troops in Saudi Arabia. That's the main issue Osama Bin Laden cited for attacking the States; infidels on holy soil.

[Babur]

lolwut


The U.S. has troops in Saudi Arabia. That's the main issue Osama Bin Laden cited for attacking the States; infidels on holy soil.

Bin Laden was trying to deceive us all

but seriously good point man.

[Heathen Hammer]

lolwut


The U.S. has troops in Saudi Arabia. That's the main issue Osama Bin Laden cited for attacking the States; infidels on holy soil.

Than why didn't US pressure them? Its obvious that Saudi Arabia is behind it.

[SonOfOdin]

Uhhh...


Saudi's take over plane.
Plane crashes into towers.
Innocent People Died.

What else is there to believe?

Nope...one of the buildings fell exactly like a demolition building, literally collapsing to the bottom, not falling
Also, there was a minor explosion in one of the towers, just about in the middle of it

I don't believe it's a downright conspiracy but I surely thing something is not right
And the invasion of Iraq was exactly right after the event right?
No one knows what Bush was thinking...

[Tankbuster]

Nope...one of the buildings fell exactly like a demolition building, literally collapsing to the bottom, not falling

It did fall.

Also, there was a minor explosion in one of the towers, just about in the middle of it

Air escaping through the vent holes. Explosions would have made the windows pop out.
These are claims that don't stand up to any scrutiny.

I don't believe it's a downright conspiracy but I surely thing something is not right

When you start using conspiracy facts, that's actually what you're suggesting.

And the invasion of Iraq was exactly right after the event right?
No one knows what Bush was thinking...

One and a half years later = right after?

[Downey]

They dont answer your questions, they just get more ridiculous in their observations "a former fbi agent was on a plane that crashed into one of the buildings, proof the government had their hands behind it."

[Spamostoc]

Really? Conspiracy theories?

Well come on, on the physical side you could say that in all you experience you've never seen something similar to that and therefore it's weird but then again, how many times have you seen planes being flown into buildings?

On the "how could it happen" side it's really very simple. The security was crap and a couple determined guys did make it happen. It's just that most average terrorists or criminals do not possess the patience to formulate a plan that could take years to complete. The safety lies not in how well everyone is protected but in how lazy and short-sighted people are.

On the political side: yes, the government did use it to promote their agenda but they do that with every down turn. Simply put, in good times no one will pass drastic legislation because problems can wait. In bad times, everyone is panicking and doing anything they think would have the slightest chance of helping. Bush used the 9/11 panic to his advantage to push foreign wars, Obama is using the economic panic to push for interior reforms.

There's nothing unusual about 9/11, obviously the official investigation didn't cover everything but that's within the bounds of normal politics. You have to realize, things like that happen all the time all over the world. While the fact that it took place in the US made it different, it's still political business as usual.

EDIT: is there an option for "it's business as usual?"

[Markas]

On the "how could it happen" side it's really very simple. The security was crap and a couple determined guys did make it happen. It's just that most average terrorists or criminals do not possess the patience to formulate a plan that could take years to complete. The safety lies not in how well everyone is protected but in how lazy and short-sighted people are.

It's the 'average terrorists' bit I see quite often in these debates. We're so used to soldiers bushwacked and buildings bombed by suicide attackers anything more complex we don't see as in thier means. These guys were trained in deception, weapons and even aeronautics and had a fanatical ideological base. Given that nobody expected this (I heard few people on 9/11 say 'saw it coming') and the organisation of terrorist cells perhaps lax security isn't all to blame, but the planning and execution by particulary devious individuals.

[Hub'ite]

How many threads do we have to open about this? There is NO government cover up.