GAMEPLAY ISSUES

[cyllan]

Hello to all the mod

As a lot of more people on the boards i think the mod looks as good or better that the original game i am surprised so many people in your development group has so much spare time to make such a good mod for nothing, well thanks anyway.


the purpose of this email is to highlight one issue that has dissapointed me a lot .

i started a mordor campaign on hard, i said to myself time to kick some ass.

the gondor units were harder and numerous , i managed to take over minas tirith and osgilliath only after many turns of fierce war, then even rohan came in mass to help gondor.

things only improved when i got the mountain ogres, all in all very hard, it got to a point where i started using autoresolve because with the black numeroans with 9 command stars i was winning big time, there was no way i could win like that no matter how good i am, gondor trops are on average much better that orcs.






Ok i said , lets try GONDOR, lets see how they like my fountain guards

i tried on very hard as well, i had no money for soldiers, the ones i had were not that powerfull, i took east osgiliath and i hold it for 20 turns, i got overran, by full stacks of hadrin and mordor, ?where was rohan? nowhere, in fact i never saw anybody else in 40 turns.

at the end i gave up as i was overan bankrupt and the odds were too stacked aganist the human player.




Next i try hadrin,i thought i would have an easy time since mordor and gondor would be battling to the death.

turn 20 gondor is on a ceasefire with mordor (?), and gondor are attacking me with full stacks south of their border .


I dont mind hard games but this is cheating aganist the player,i dont know if this inbalance is hard coded or not , but i am gutted., gondor is not playable, i haven tried on easy, but on very hard there is no money and the hadrin with no other enemies have all the time in the world to come with full stacks at you.

also the black horse numeroans i thought they were inmortal (as in hundreds of years old) i had a couple dying of old age!!!!!


is this a known issue? i guess it must have be, do you know if it will be solved at some point?

well thanks for all the hard work , very appreciated


regards

cyllan

[axnsan]

Gondor is very playable, it's just that it's harder than other factions

[Mythre]

I played Gondor for my first Campaign. Tricky at times, and the battles with Mordor can be bloody. (Especially when they got trolls) but its really not that bad,

[Soul Firez]

yeah its very playable indeed and i use RR /RC which makes the gondor game even tougher

just roll up your sleeves and get back in there and hunt some orc LOL hey its a hard game its actually easy as the bad guys like mordor thats the easieest camapign in my opinion and gondor probably the hardest for all out fight for your life

my next question is do you know how to build an economy at all gondor not to bad for money ??? and you need to defend osgilith and cair andros and the river crossing to harrods land or they will sneak in and kill you

[Mythre]

I play VH/VH and I have destroyed Harad and effectively Mordor and I am proceeding to eat Isenguard for thirds... My economy is untouchable and I can spawn any army I want in a couple of turns.. not to mention... I am finally getting some Swan Knights into the field....

[P|A|ntZ]

Cyllan, maybe try the game on H/H or N/N before you give up. You'll have an easier time with money, and the AI factions don't get the big recruitment and cash bonuses.

Don't try Rohan next. They are pretty challenging to get past turn 50 in decent shape with a nasty Isengard and 4 other factions crusading against you regularly. Maybe give the dwarves a try on N/N and see how you do.

[Skeleton Of The West]

Gondor is not impossible to play with, its just harder. Try maybe on lower difficulty, the AI will get much less bonuses and the enemy will come with much less units.

[cyllan]

no it isnt not at very hard

, i ran out of money to send reinforcements to osgiliath, you get overan by the hadrin at the south, while you try to defend osgiliath ( and you must as it is the only defensible point aganist mordor.)


the worst part is the more than time passes the worse the situation gets 2 empires , more than double the cities etc
, and noone helps you, i am sorry the mod looks good but it is as unbalanced as the vanilla version, i played all three southern factions , and each time i had money issues while they had full stacks plus money to develop ,

sorry but no, you cant win an economic war alone aganist 2 factions, it is the same issue with the second world war the germans were better but ran out of money/soldiers.

we all like the look of the third age , but the gameplay is unfair, i say this after 40 +hours playing 3 factions.

[Maizel]

People always says they want a hard game, but as soon as they're losing, a great many beging whining that it's too hard.


Losing can be a whole lot of fun too.

[Lordinquisitor]

I don`t want to offend you but it sounds more like tactical issues on your side, than balance issues.

By following the standard tactic rules it should be pretty easy to kick some ass-

...Building an good economy as early as possible, knowing how to counter which unit, knowing how much garrison you need in each city, building roads and watch towers, no auto management of cities, taking key-settlements, using the terrain to your advantage, beeing mobile and flexible, only building advanced barracks in cities that need them, knowing when to retreat.. etc...

I grant you, Gondor campaign is rather hard, but you have only to defend three key points- west osgiliath, cair andros and the southern shore against harad.. Defending osgiliath is easy, just move your troops on the bridge between the two city-parts. Cair Andros is an castle, and should be rather easy to defend, despite continuos onslaught.

Defending against harad is harder, i usually got 1-2 strong fleets moving around the southern shore to defeat any advancing fleet. Sometimes they come over the landbridge and you`ll need some good`ol field battle. Using your general units as heavy breakers is tech.

That allies don`t help you is annoying, but a problem of Medieeval 2 itself, which can`t be fixed.

Just keep playing and improving, like every one of us.

[Kahvipannu]

Gondor really is a challenge, atleast in the start of the campaign.. After endles defending against Mordor's full stacks, and when you get your economy in good shape, game gets a lot easier. Keep trying.

After 1.2 is released i'm going to start new Gondor campaign, those Blackroot Archers looks pretty damn sweet..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Skeleton Of The West]

Gondor really is a challenge, atleast in the start of the campaign.. After endles defending against Mordor's full stacks, and when you get your economy in good shape, game gets a lot easier. Keep trying.

After 1.2 is released i'm going to start new Gondor campaign, those Blackroot Archers looks pretty damn sweet..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah they look great. Are they for Gondor?

[Kahvipannu]

Yeah they look great. Are they for Gondor?

I believe they were located in Gondor, and they also took part in Minas tiriths siege, killing some mumakils..
and..

Blackroot Archers will be a 'hybrid' between militia archers, Ithilien rangers and heavy gondor archers. Lightly armored archers with exceptional skills, probably the best archers overall for Gondor.
Also the general archer availability of Gondor will be reduced, so the player has to rely more on the AOR archers...

[Skeleton Of The West]

I believe they were located in Gondor, and they also took part in Minas tiriths siege, killing some mumakils..
and..

Oh great I really like them. For some reason I thought they will be located near the anduin river northern to Gondor, something near Mirkwood, the name mislead me. I guess I was wrong.

[Myshkin]

Yes, why don't you try on a lower difficulty setting for a start?

[wupwup]

i too find gondor verry hard. but i think my problem is i auto resolve most of the time, wich is a waste of money and troops. i know i shouldnt but my pc has no gfx card (using mobo chipset) so battles are verry slow to play. about 0.5 fps on lowest settings. anyway back on topic. gondor is hard to play but not impossible. although you raise a good point. mordor should be harder!

[Myshkin]

wupwup try normal unit size to normal, this will help you a lot...

[Warmaster Tibs]

wupwup try normal unit size to normal, this will help you a lot...

By lowest I belive that includes small numbers.

[johannlo]

No I think for some people the campaign plays out differently than the rest.

With my HE campaign (H/H) I've lost count of the number of full stack mordors I've eliminated w/ little to no losses yet they keep coming. I count 6 half stacks (with ELITE troops, not goblins) rushing up to Rohan the turn after I've eliminated two full stacks w/ heroic victories.

With RR+RC (yes I've played TW games to death I'm doing the economy as well as possible, building roads, markets, law buildingscentral capital, etc.) I'm not getting enough cash to field more than three stacks and they're mostly the starting troops (light archers + light inf), with the recruitment limits (9 turns) I can't build armies anywahy and get them to the front even if I had the cash.

Every single turn I smash at least a full stack in return for no more than ~50 losses, sometimes two stacks. And every turn Mordor just keeps pouring troops forwards. I turned off FOW and was horrified to see three full stacks charging out of the black gate. This is nearly turn 100, isengard destroyed, rohan secure (by me lol) but I am not making any headway to retake minis tirith or the river crossing due to mordor stack spam.

Lilke I said, I am winning everything w/ heroic victories and building as many economic buildings as possible - but with HE recruitment nerfing (RR+RC) and stupid costs (450 upkeep for my heavy spears. Which I get one in 9 turns. ) I am not able to field 1 elf for every 6 orcs even getting 10:1 kill/death ratios every single battle. Right now my field armies are outnumbered around 20:1 (since my half stacks are 1/3rd the size of an orc half stack).

Conclusion: AI stack spam needs to be toned down. Or maybe I need to stop using RR+RC? Just so many people recommended it I started using it on day one. the 9 turn replenish + raised costs is whats killing me. I have no idea how anyone wins a HE RR+RC campaign, if I'm making no progress getting heroic victory after heroic victory WTF are you supposed to do?!?!

[Soul Firez]

yeah RC/RR is tough as it tries to make the game a little more lore fitting there is a warning that if you wanting world domination the elves are not the ones to go as those replenishment times are to represent well the fact that most of the elves are sailing back to valinor

the elf game is a much more defensive one as you will never field huge armies to dominate middle earth( did you see in the books or the movies elves rulling ME LOL) but there win conditions are also not as hard to get though so yes you can win i have won using rc rr with the silvian elves havent tried the high elves yet though ( yes on vh vh )