Pontus and Kappadocians

[Dafuge]

Hi all,

I've been recently trying to play as Pontus on varying levels of money, however all on CWB, such as 15k, 12.5k and 10k. However when I reach the troop selection screen I just get stuck. You know the feeling when you forget all troop capabilities and every army you used to have in your head just fails. I know their strengths and weakness, it's basically a jack of all trades faction. Semi-decent infantry, semi-decent missiles, better than average cavalry, so it can put up to nearly all factions.

So I was wondering what kind of troop selections you guys use and what tactics in game. I'm assuming you use different ones for missile heavy or minimal missile factions.

Onto the subject of Kappadocian cavalry. As Pontus, you have the ability to get Scythed Chariots and Pontic Heavy cavalry, not the greatest cavalry, but used correctly could defeat many factions cavalry. Scythed Chariots have their massive morale effect but their obvious draw backs of running amok and Pontic Heavy cavalry are nice troops to try and hit a General cavalry unit or any isolated units, whilst being a very good hammer.

This leaves the Kappadocians obsolete. They don't bear the amour piercing mace of their cousins the Cataphracts or their hefty charge bonus. They couldn't hold the line against any factions cavalry, except for maybe Dacia or Spain. So I was wondering if anyone had used them effectively at any money scale or if there is any use to them what so ever?

[Zekey]

First soften the enemy cav with chariots then even if they amok use capas in wedge to deliever the finishing blow. Capas are better at flanking than pontic heavy cav.

[Dafuge]

Interesting. I'd still prefer the skirmishing and missile abilities of the Pontic Heavy Cavalry over the brutality and cost heavy Kappadocians.

[|Sith| Max]

i prefer a balanced mix of cappadocians, scythed chariots, pontic heavy cavvies and chariot archers for me cav. for infantry i rely on phalanx pikemen instead of bronze shield because standard phalangites have more defense and cost less. for archers i rely on archers...

[Marion the Cantankerous]

Bronze shields are not too great against mirror phalanx matches either, everything but Silver Shields, etc. elites > Bronze Shields. You really want to go for a mix with Pontus when it comes to cavalry.

[Warhammster]

Bronze shields are not too great against mirror phalanx matches either, Silver Shields, etc. > Bronze Shields. You really want to go for a mix with Pontus when it comes to cavalry.

They are identical genious:

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=pontus&id=146
http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?fac...eleucid&id=212

Bronze Shields have the edge however as they are cheaper and cheaper to upgrade.

Going with phalanx pikemen over bronze shields is retarded by the way, becuase:

1) Phalanx pikemen only got a morale of 4 (the same as archers )
2) They are only 80 men in the unit.
3) They lack stamina.

[Marion the Cantankerous]

Whoops forgot to put in a few words there. But you missed the point of most elite phalanx units being superior to bronze shields, thanks.

[Warhammster]

Whoops forgot to put in a few words there. But you missed the point of most elite phalanx units being superior to bronze shields, thanks.

Yes they are inferior to: Royal Pikemen and most hoplites.

[|Sith| Max]

They are identical genious:

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=pontus&id=146
http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?fac...eleucid&id=212

Bronze Shields have the edge however as they are cheaper and cheaper to upgrade.

Going with phalanx pikemen over bronze shields is retarded by the way, becuase:

1) Phalanx pikemen only got a morale of 4 (the same as archers )
2) They are only 80 men in the unit.
3) They lack stamina.

when you use your units right they dont need to be ubersoldaten you moron. ive beaten two 30 k armies in a 15 k 2v2 match where the enemy forgot to team up, using scythia while me ally was watching.

i prefer phalanx pikemen because theyre cheaper and have higher defense stats. i do not need an additional 20 men. who cares if they got 40 instead of 60.. only helps my kill to death ratio should the inf be wiped out. seriously you dont actually think a pontus player tries to win using the faction's infantry? did your mother ride rollercoasters nonstop while she was pregnant?

[Warhammster]

when you use your units right they dont need to be ubersoldaten you moron. ive beaten two 30 k armies in a 15 k 2v2 match where the enemy forgot to team up, using scythia while me ally was watching.

i prefer phalanx pikemen because theyre cheaper and have higher defense stats. i do not need an additional 20 men. who cares if they got 40 instead of 60.. only helps my kill to death ratio should the inf be wiped out. seriously you dont actually think a pontus player tries to win using the faction's infantry? did your mother ride rollercoasters nonstop while she was pregnant?

So you can win battle's with substandard soldiers, good for you, but it's the quality of the soldiers we are discussing, not yours.

Phalanx pikemen got 3 extra points of shield defense which has it's uses against missile fire, but I consider 50% extra soldiers to be a better protection since when you need missile defense the most is usually when you are getting shot up from behind.

Newsflash: Pontus needs a combined arms force to win, becuase there is always a faction that is better than them in infantry, cavalry and archery. Pontus infantry get owned by: Rome, Macedon, Greece, Egypt, Britain, Carthage and yes even Armenian Heavy Spearmen beats them. They get owned in cavalry by all that got chariots or cheap throw away light cavalry. In archery they are average.

[|Sith| Max]

only on large. on normal they only get bout 25 % more.
ive stated in the post you quoted that Pontus cant win on its infantry alone so i guess i should thank you for reinforcing my statement. i wont though since i just care about killing my opponents my own way. that way has won 90 % of the time in over 7000 games. im quite content.

[Warhammster]

only on large. on normal they only get bout 25 % more.
ive stated in the post you quoted that Pontus cant win on its infantry alone so i guess i should thank you for reinforcing my statement. i wont though since i just care about killing my opponents my own way. that way has won 90 % of the time in over 7000 games. im quite content.

It's the same relation on normal also, have a look:

Phalanx Pikemen 40:
http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=pontus&id=145

Bronze Shields 60:
http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=pontus&id=146

So the consensus is that you get 50% extra soldiers for just 45% denarii, you save 5% there! Add to this twice as high morale and better stamina.

[Dafuge]

The only reason I would ever use Phalanx Pikemen is for reserves to back up my cavalry or if I'm facing a Rome army, to put in loose in front of my line for pila fodder.

[|Sith| Max]

and as you mightve figured out, 50 % of 60 = 30. you do not get 50 % more...
I use them as main infantry because after my cav and arch are done, there usually aint much for the inf to do. i also have armies with stronger inf but the occasion never rly arises...

[Warhammster]

and as you mightve figured out, 50 % of 60 = 30. you do not get 50 % more...
I use them as main infantry because after my cav and arch are done, there usually aint much for the inf to do. i also have armies with stronger inf but the occasion never rly arises...

I'm sure your skirmish tactics are fine, but your math is:

50% is half, agreed? Phalanx Pikemen got 40 men in a unit, half of that is 20. So what do you get if you add 20 to 40? 40+20=60! 60 is the size of a Bronze Shields. Thus Bronze Shields are 50% more as they are 150% of the Phalanx Pikemen.

In multiplication: 40*1.5=60.

Arguing against that is just pretentious.

[caesar_37th]

I find i quite funny that when warhammster posts he kind of helps out his opponents argument. Anyways with cheaper pikemen you can take better cav to win the cav duel. with total cav supperiority and missile superriority it doesnt matter if your inf has weaker morale. you can smash them the moment they engage and they will have equal morale to yours due to being slaughtered by missile fire. I guess you werent thinking about that eh?

[|Sith| Max]

I'm sure your skirmish tactics are fine, but your math is:

50% is half, agreed? Phalanx Pikemen got 40 men in a unit, half of that is 20. So what do you get if you add 20 to 40? 40+20=60! 60 is the size of a Bronze Shields. Thus Bronze Shields are 50% more as they are 150% of the Phalanx Pikemen.

In multiplication: 40*1.5=60.

Arguing against that is just pretentious.

you bet i will. you say that you get twice as many men, which should result in 80 men on normal scale for the bronzers since 2 X 40 = 80. thats just not true and it has more to do with common sence than math.

[Warhammster]

you bet i will. you say that you get twice as many men, which should result in 80 men on normal scale for the bronzers since 2 X 40 = 80. thats just not true and it has more to do with common sence than math.

50% extra doesn't mean twice as many, it means half as many extra. Twice as many would be 100% more.

[MaceMan]

Regardless of the specific mathematics involved, the basic point Max is trying to make is that quality>quantity.

[Dafuge]

Cool.

So for anyone else struggling with Pontus,

1. Take a nice mix of cavalry.
2. Get a lot of archers. (I do this with all factions anyway )
3. Make sure to make your cav upgraded so it can beat the others.
3b. To do this sacrifice bronze shields for Phalanx Pikemen.

If that's about right, can anyone spare me some of their armies?