Urban Cohorts Extra Expensive?

**s/laughter** · July 07, 2009, 08:31 AM

why do Urban Cohorts cost more than regular Legionaries??

all the stats are lower for UC, yet the are like 300 more denarii (sorry, not looking at the game atm)...

is there something else about the UC I'm not aware of that makes them more valuable?

**C-Rob** · July 07, 2009, 01:56 PM

there's extra men if that helps. 10 extra on medium, i don't play on higher... I haven't reached the marian reforms, so i don't know how useful they are in battle in campaign, but in custom battle they're decent. Bloat your numbers at hte cost of pilum and regular attack points.

**Sextus Molestus** · July 07, 2009, 02:24 PM

I suppose you could consider them a decent garrison unit in border cities, but with reinforced stone walls (something you'll likely have before you can recruit urbans) I would suppose they're hardly necessary. In my Roman campaign, before I quit from boredom, I planned on using them as a mandatory garrison unit for any city, large city, or huge city, for "roleplaying" purposes.

**Scutarii** · July 07, 2009, 08:49 PM

They're essentially an RP unit. They aren't cost effective as garrisons, regular legionaries would do much better...

**s/laughter** · July 08, 2009, 12:34 AM

^ RP unit?

the point is, why use them at all if regular legionnaires are less expensive and have much higher stats... seems to me the Urban Cohorts are basically a high-quality Vigile, so why do they have base cost 1200, and Legionaires 800? makes them totally redundant.

**Publius Quirinus** · July 08, 2009, 06:38 AM

'RP' means role-playing. Like Scutarii said, they're for if you want to represent border garrisons, and vigiles don't feel like they're adequete. At least that's how I understand it.

**Total Roach** · July 13, 2009, 08:56 PM

Would have to agree with the RP comments, they do seem to be rather a pointless unit, not only with the fact that they are more expensive but also they can only be recruited from an Urban Barracks, and a city with one of those incurs the -20% Tax penalty for having the Urban Barracks. So I don't use them. Don't get too close to them too slowly though if you are fighting against them, 240 Pila hurt, and if they manage 2 or even 3 throws, ouch!

**Dog Fart** · July 13, 2009, 09:45 PM

I've always thought they represented the legions that were levied in dire times. Such as the ones Crassus commanded against Spartacus.

But I think the main reason why they are so expensive is to discourage the AI from spamming them. Regular legionaries are cheaper to encourage the ai to spam a real legion.

**s/laughter** · July 14, 2009, 06:23 AM

that doesn't make any sense... about the AI spamming them... they have about the same stats as Auxilia, so why wouldn't the AI just spam Auxilia as it is?

if a unit has lower stats, it should have a lower cost, I think. I've never much thought about role-playing in terms of TW games. I do like to give myself a tough campaign, and I try to lay off the AI where I can exploit it and it takes away from the realism (one example, I dont take out the AI's navy completely and I dont attack ships with armies on them at all)

but, to buy a unit just because it has a different name and a different picture, and a different paragraph beneath it telling me that THIS unit is the "Policeman of Rome" unit..
... while over here there's a better unit, of the same type, that does all the same stuff better, but with a different name, and a different picture, and a different paragraph underneat telling me that THIS unit is the "Field Soldier of Rome"

OMG, what will I do??!!

choose the second unit.

**CaesarVincens** · July 14, 2009, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by s/laughter

that doesn't make any sense... about the AI spamming them... they have about the same stats as Auxilia, so why wouldn't the AI just spam Auxilia as it is?

if a unit has lower stats, it should have a lower cost, I think. I've never much thought about role-playing in terms of TW games. I do like to give myself a tough campaign, and I try to lay off the AI where I can exploit it and it takes away from the realism (one example, I dont take out the AI's navy completely and I dont attack ships with armies on them at all)

but, to buy a unit just because it has a different name and a different picture, and a different paragraph beneath it telling me that THIS unit is the "Policeman of Rome" unit..
... while over here there's a better unit, of the same type, that does all the same stuff better, but with a different name, and a different picture, and a different paragraph underneat telling me that THIS unit is the "Field Soldier of Rome"

OMG, what will I do??!!

choose the second unit.

Urban cohorts are better than auxilia against everything but cavalry, pila and swords are a better combination against other infantry units than just spears. Their morale might be higher as well.

**Sextus Molestus** · July 14, 2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by s/laughter

but, to buy a unit just because it has a different name and a different picture, and a different paragraph beneath it telling me that THIS unit is the "Policeman of Rome" unit..
... while over here there's a better unit, of the same type, that does all the same stuff better, but with a different name, and a different picture, and a different paragraph underneat telling me that THIS unit is the "Field Soldier of Rome"

OMG, what will I do??!!

choose the second unit.

Ah, yes, but that is what you'd do. I personally would favor the urban because I favor roleplaying and historical accuracy (to some extent). It's all a matter of opinion. To each his own.

**s/laughter** · July 15, 2009, 07:02 AM

^have u actually done this in practice?

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but the thing is, I dont have the CASH for that type of luxury... maybe ur just a lot better at making money in this game than me, but that type of 'roleplaying' is something I simply cant afford. on H/H, I almost never have enough cash to do all the things I want each turn.. and I can roleplay well enough with vigiles and a few decent troops here and there in case a rebel threat pops up..

and as far as the whole 'realism' and 'ropleplaying' argument goes.. it is even established that Urban Cohorts WERE actually more expensive to maintain than Legionaries?!

**Maraxus** · July 15, 2009, 03:37 PM

Urban Cohorts cost more to recruit because they have a lower upkeep per man then legionaries. Think of them as heavy Vigiles. Realistic.. I don't really know. However it is well balanced IMO.

**DimeBagHo** · July 15, 2009, 05:36 PM

The AI really likes large unit sizes so the initial cost of Urban cohorts has to be high to keep the AI from spamming them. I think this is also realistic because a large part of the initial cost would be equipment. As Maraxus notes the upkeep cost is relatively low. For most units the upkeep is half the initial cost, but for Urbans it's only one third.

I might reduce the upkeep a bit more, so that in the long run they will be cheaper than regular cohorts. I will also add some more explanation to the description.