Belafas/Umbar/Shirrif Regime as mini factions.

**Emperor Ross** · July 03, 2009, 08:54 AM

I was thinking that Umbar should be separate from Harad. They would focus on naval raids.

In the books Belafas was basically independent, so maybe they could be a Gondor protectorate. . .

In the book when Dunlanders go into the Shire and form a Shirrif Regime. So I was thinking that if Isengard destroys Eriador, then they get an option to give certain regions to this new nation. It would be a protectorate of Isengard, and recruit hobbits and Dunlander "Ruffians". I personally think this would be tight!

**Æsir** · July 03, 2009, 09:17 AM

You must try Divide And Conquer - An Expanded Faction Mod

**OfficerJohn** · July 03, 2009, 10:15 AM

Belfalas, no.
Dunland makes sense, Khand makes enough sense, but Belfalas?

**OfficerJohn** · July 03, 2009, 10:16 AM

Well, Umbar wasn't independent, it was seriously conquered by Harad in real Total War style.
So, no, Umbar is not a good suggestion, I'd say...

**Jean=A=Luc** · July 03, 2009, 10:22 AM

Changed my mind. Since all three of Ross' threads have been merged into this one some worthwhile discussion may yet emerge. I've deleted all the off-topic posts to give the thread a "fresh" start.

The other cons & pros topics by this user have either been merged into this one or deleted, don't start any more of these threads (goes for everyone) as they will be auto-deleted/closed, it should be clear why.

Ross, it's all there but you may want to reorganize the 1st post.

**Skeleton Of The West** · July 03, 2009, 11:14 AM

Thank you Jean, its much better now

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**Muffer Nl** · July 03, 2009, 02:06 PM

The Thain will win from the Sherrifs!

**OfficerJohn** · July 04, 2009, 05:27 AM

A Shire faction and a Shirrif faction!

**axnsan** · July 04, 2009, 05:34 AM

Why not populate the entire western half of the map with 20 mini-factions?

**Beregond** · July 04, 2009, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by axnsan

Why not populate the entire western half of the map with 20 mini-factions?

Hmmm

Nice idea!

**Steve Holt** · July 05, 2009, 10:18 PM

That would be a nice idea, sort of like Germany in EU3

**Bela** · July 06, 2009, 02:46 AM

I'm sorry guys, but I think a bit differently. If the northern factions should be split, then (if controlled by the AI) they should have nearly no chance to stand the fight vs. the evil factions (sooner or later they would fight each other, not Isengard or the OotMM, reducing the chance of Rohan and other factions in harder situation to survive).
If Belafas should exist, then Gondor would be much weaker (and most of the times Belafas ought do nothing just standing with their armies in the middle of Gondor until Sauron's armies reach their gates).
The Shire became independent only in the fourth age (if I remember right), until that the hobbits were left on their own because of their minor importance (IMO it's a bit bizarre to conquer Eriador with armies of hobbits). And it was only a few dozens of Dunlanders in the Shire but were forced to leave by the lead of 4 hobbits (and about a hundred hobbit-peasants)...
Anyway, the only faction I can imagine is Umbar, they could really split from Harad, and attack Gondor territories by sea (or river).

axnsan: Nice streak of irony!

**Vhaelor** · July 06, 2009, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by kisbelaim

The Shire became independent only in the fourth age (if I remember right), until that the hobbits were left on their own because of their minor importance (IMO it's a bit bizarre to conquer Eriador with armies of hobbits).

No, the Shire became an independent state with the death of King Arvedui of Arthedain, after the fall of Fornost Erain. They elected a thain to 'rule until the return of the king' which, just like for the stewards of Gondor, became more of a speech than an actual oath. King Elessar of the Reunited Kingdom however only made sure that the Shire would continue to be an independent state.

**Bela** · July 06, 2009, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Aruthiel

No, the Shire became an independent state with the death of King Arvedui of Arthedain, after the fall of Fornost Erain. They elected a thain to 'rule until the return of the king' which, just like for the stewards of Gondor, became more of a speech than an actual oath. King Elessar of the Reunited Kingdom however only made sure that the Shire would continue to be an independent state.

OK, thank you for the information, now it's clear for me (maybe I sould read the appendix again at the end of the Return of the King)

Skeleton Of The West: I'm happy to your reply, seems like I'm not alone with my opinion.

Agree that it would be fun but I just don't see the reason why they (the hobbits) should conquer other lands as they are not that war-like guys.

(the only reason IMO is that they run out of tobacco)

**Skeleton Of The West** · July 06, 2009, 03:33 AM

Kisbelaim, I agree with almost everything you wrote here.
I dont see any reason to make a Belfalas faction, it just wont do a thing and Gondor will just be weaker.
Umbar is a good idea for a faction and I like it

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I think it would be nice (and unusual) to play a hobbit faction with more hobbit units. It will be a minor faction, but still it could be fun.

**Skeleton Of The West** · July 03, 2009, 10:01 AM

You can play DAC, where Umbar is independent, or wait for the Unfinished Tales to release, this mod also contain indepednt Umbar.

Originally Posted by MasterBigAb

Damn please stop spamming the forum with all this unnecessary pro and contra threads

Yes I agree with you

.

**Skeleton Of The West** · July 03, 2009, 09:59 AM

There is no point of making Belfalas an independent faction because it only has one region, surrounded by friendly factions and not a place with great enough importance to make it as an independent faction.

Originally Posted by axnsan

*runs off to profile page to retrieve facepalm picture from album*

Alright, here it is

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

What the hell is with these pros and cons threads for factions that would have no importance and will be surronded by friendly factions?

Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate

If we would go so far we can make every province an own faction or why not every city or every house or even better every body part?

It gets a bit much of such "discussions" now. sorry

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I agree with you guys.